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Programming is a Terrible Job

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Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#81

Post by jasonlotito »

iSnow wrote: post #63
pilif wrote: post #47

Of course the day job isn't always fun. That's why it's a job and that's what we get paid for. But: I f'ing love my job as a programmer. There is nothing in this world that I'd rather do. There's nothing that constantly fills me with as much joy as programming does. I admit that I might be a bit lucky here, having founded the company I'm working for; that allows me to pick my battles and find a good balance between s…

I think, as a founder you are missing the point that 99 out of 100 times you are told - explicitly or by work schedule "do not do it in an interesting, performant or elegant way, just get it working somehow and move on"

I've never been told that. I've been told to get something done. How I achieve that has never been an issue. Interesting, performant, or elegant does not mean it has to be slow. That's part of the challenge. Meeting the demands of the business while meeting the demands of a professional.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#82

Post by jasonlotito »

garethadams wrote: post #7

Solving problems is interesting. Repetition is terrible. As programmers many of the things we build are to automate processing that other people would find repetitive and make errors doing. As a result, our work becomes repetitive and we make errors doing it. As some level we've succeeded – we've added a layer of abstraction and made a lot of people's lives easier – but we've also moved our expectations ahead of us a…

> Solving problems is interesting. Repetition is terrible.

DRY.

Solve the problem of repetition.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#83

Post by leoc »

> Sometimes I also think if it would be different if I was born several decades earlier.

Check out section 7.6 of Phil Greenspun's SITE CONTROLLER thesis http://philip.greenspun.com/research/tr1408/complete.pdf . It seems there has long been plenty of undesirable programming work (anyone for in-house COBOL?) but a BS in CS may have been a more reliable route to interesting work before the PC software industry.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#84

Post by Supermighty »

I've felt this way before. Dejected that the my new job wasn't an exciting candy land of save-the-day hacks and movie montage of elegant code spanning the screen. My expectations were too high. I thought we would always do the right thing to kick out software all grown up ready to take on the world.

When the realization set in I got angry. First at the job then at myself. I held it tight knowing someone was to blame. Anger lead to depression which sparked more anger. But depression won, and eventually lead to a calm realization that programming wasn't the magical world I wanted it to be. So it became just a job.

I never wanted it to be just a job. I work with people who don't know a bit from a byte. They could care less what I code as long as it works. For a long time I believed them. I just made it work. Recently I've started to believe again.

I've started to believe in the magic again. I'm learning that within the boundaries of my job I can create little realms of beauty. No one cares how I code so I can code to my own enjoyment. I've stopped caring what other people thought. And I've stopped looking to the job and outside world to give me enjoyment and I've started looking inside myself. To find the joy in my own actions, in the moment.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#85

Post by jezclaremurugan »

But you know __why__ it isn't terrible - unlike people stuck in other professions, one can pick whatever interests them, work on it, and with minimal cost show case it to the whole world, and if that gets some attention, maybe they can land an interesting gig, or the random stuff they work on might even take life on its own. It doesn't happen frequently but last time I checked there were a few that did happen this way.

So if one limits oneself to just what the customer wants boss what the boss demands - programming is terrible, but programming unlike most other jobs allows one to follow one's own heart with costs tending to zero.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#86

Post by avenger123 »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #72
Wintamute wrote: post #36

There are an incredible amount of hard problems and interesting challenges in frontend web dev. The field is changing at a fantastic pace, and there are all sorts of exciting projects to get involved with. Its wide open. If you think its all just JS hacks you're doing it wrong.

> There are an incredible amount of hard problems and interesting challenges in frontend web dev. Name three that your boss will allow you to work on. > there are all sorts of exciting projects to get involved with Name three that your boss will allow you to work on. > If you think its all just JS hacks you're doing it wrong. Or maybe that's his boss doing it wrong: like, "This form is ugly on our HR people's compute…

I think that's giving too much power to your job.

Your boss may not let you work on it but there's no reason to not work on it outside the job for 5-10 hours a week, just for kicks. Those kicks might be enough to keep the day job more bearable.

If at the end of the day, putting in 5-10 hours a week extra out of your own time for it is considered too much, then accept that you also see your work as just a job.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#87

Post by nicpottier »

AznHisoka wrote: post #60
loup-vaillant wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There' a difference between having "large swaths of time that are a bit mind numbing", and having those swaths taking most, possibly all your working time. OP said: > I don't think I ever caught myself writing code for my employer and thinking "hey, I really enjoy this" ----- > Our job is not to program, our job is to create value. It's supposed to be the job of every worker out there. Even janitors (believe me, clea…

Seconded. It's not our job to create value.. Well it is but in a perverse way. It's our job to follow a boss' order and do what he thinks has value to his life, his salary, and him not getting in trouble with higher management

You guys need to take responsibility for your unhappiness and go find a job where you aren't treated as a cog. I say that with complete sincerity. Find a better job.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#88

Post by noptic »

iSnow wrote: post #63
pilif wrote: post #47

Of course the day job isn't always fun. That's why it's a job and that's what we get paid for. But: I f'ing love my job as a programmer. There is nothing in this world that I'd rather do. There's nothing that constantly fills me with as much joy as programming does. I admit that I might be a bit lucky here, having founded the company I'm working for; that allows me to pick my battles and find a good balance between s…

I think, as a founder you are missing the point that 99 out of 100 times you are told - explicitly or by work schedule "do not do it in an interesting, performant or elegant way, just get it working somehow and move on"

"um yeah nice, just ... remove the comments. And whats that tool? You can use Emacs for that! And we already have a mechanism for that just put a sub in namespace and name it on_db__insert_trigger!"

Then I go home and write pure OO coffescript/C#. The company is great, but we have very different views on how software should be desigened.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#89

Post by Sarien »

pilif wrote: post #67
iSnow wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, as a founder you are missing the point that 99 out of 100 times you are told - explicitly or by work schedule "do not do it in an interesting, performant or elegant way, just get it working somehow and move on"

Oh I know (I also said so in my comment). And that's why I consciously try to distribute the interesting work between my coworkers and I. That way everybody gets a nice mix between "job" and "fun". Does that mean that sometimes I have to do crap? Yes. Does that mean that everybody gets to have fun at times? Yes. If I can help it at all, I will not be the person responsible for somebody to write the rant that OP has p…

Very well put, a nice mix between "job" and "fun". Except that most employers want their employees to do the "job" part of everything and do any "fun" parts in their spare time.

Re: Programming is a Terrible Job

#90

Post by gcb1 »

antocv wrote: post #55
nicpottier wrote: post #32

There's a reason it is called work and not play. If work was always enjoyable, then they wouldn't need to pay you to do it. I think the author is delusional if he thinks any programming anywhere doesn't have large swaths of time that are a bit mind numbing. And my experience has been the programmers who think themselves 'above that' are the ones that provide the least value. Our job is not to program, our job is to c…

> If work was always enjoyable, then they wouldn't need to pay you to do it. Why do football players, musicians and movie actors get payed 1000x as much as the software engineers who made the technology to make possible their success? TV, Internet, radio, now all HD quality. So that some people can enjoy their work and earn millions while we who invent and produce the infrastructure should suck it up and call it work…

why do you make 100k while the cleaning lady who provides you with health thru a clean infrastructure should just suck it up and call it work?
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