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Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

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Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#91

Post by pjmlp »

astine wrote: post #47
sker wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also know that folks in most of Latin America, India, Thailand, etc. eat at 8-9pm or so I can only speak for Mexico, but the reason for this is that dinner is not the most important/bigger meal of the day, lunch is. Mexico: medium breakfast, big lunch, small dinner. USA: small breakfast, medium lunch, big dinner. Over here people will just have a sandwich or two for dinner, that's why it doesn't matter if it happ…

Lunch as the primary meal of the day is a staple of Mediterranean cultures. Italy, Spain, Greece, et. al., all have large lunches and small dinners. Latin America is also in many ways a Mediterranean culture so many Latin and Hispanic countries share in that trait.

In Portugal dinners are like lunches, although we also eat late, but one can probably say we are more Atlantic than Mediterranean.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#92

Post by samuel »

hnriot wrote: post #63
growupkids wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that was more of a culture coping mechanism? With an unemployment rate of a staggering 50% for those under 25, and with 68% of them leaving Spain to find work, and 12% overall unemployment for everyone else: that sounds like a lot of people that don't even have a job. That's not a good thing, perhaps the attitude of work to live, as said previously, is more of a coping mechanism. Otherwise, maybe this is at t…

more likely it's the opposite, the reason for the unemployment rates and poor GDP is because of this attitude to work. Its like trying find a ton of explanations for something when the big pink elephant in the room is being ignored. Ever since the British defeated their "invincible" Armada Spain has tried to compete with the rest of Europe and struggled, culminating with the current financial crisis. The time zone no…

So the roots of the current real state bust may be found in the invincible Armada in the 1600s(BTW nobody in Spain put it that name, and that episode wasn't the end of the war, which didn't end so badly to Spain). Yeah, great analysis, thank you. Trafalgar didn't appeal to you?

The reasons of Spanish underdevelopment during the past centuries are several and have been studied thoroughly and have nothing to do with "being lazy" as you seem to suggest.

I detest how every news that involves Spain is linked to the current crisis. Just 5 years ago Spain was a model of economic growth and progress and we lived at the same Time Zone.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#93

Post by crazygringo »

Oletros wrote: post #75
crazygringo wrote: post #66

What? This doesn't even begin to make sense, just like the article says in the beginning -- Americans are an hour off for the majority of the year, and it doesn't seem to be harming anything. If there's any kind of special Spanish fatigue, I can't believe it has anything to do with their timezone -- it's the entire cultural thing of sleeping/relaxing at siesta, and staying up late. Spaniards don't work late because o…

> it's the entire cultural thing of sleeping/relaxing at siesta, I'm Spanish, from Barcelona and I don't know anybody that sleeps or relaxes at "siesta" time. Well, I don't know about siesta time. > it's the fact that they take a three-hour "lunch"! Also, I don't know anybody that takes a three hour lunch

I spent a couple of weeks in the south of Spain, working... and not everyone actually napped, but everyone certainly took off from about 1-4 pm, or 2-5 depending. A friend of mine doing an MBA in Madrid also talked about a similar gap in the schedule. I'm not Spanish though, I'd love to know about regional/industry differences.

The siesta is alive and kicking in Mexico as well -- a friend of mine who's a well-to-do lawyer in Mexico City, his whole firm takes off 3 hours an afternoon as well, and he explained it's a pretty normal thing to do -- particularly so you can have lunch with your family. Of course, doubling your daily commute has its own problems...

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#94

Post by Samuel_Michon »

olmo wrote: post #70
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I also think that education level might have something to do with it. As a farmer or factory worker, you’ll likely work hard, but your contribution probably won’t be reflected as much in GDP as an engineer’s work.

We have plenty of engineers in spain (me being one). http://capitalsocialenespanol.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/st... http://capitalsocialenespanol.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/gr...

I wasn’t suggesting there aren’t any engineers in Spain. But to compare the Netherlands and Spain using the chart you cited:

Students who graduated in 2010 in the fields of mathematics, science and technology:

The Netherlands: 15,000, on a population of 17 million. At that time, the country had 985 thousand people between the ages of 20 and 24. The percentage of 2010 graduates in STEM fields is 1.5% of that group.

Spain: 25,000, on a population of 47 million. At that time, the country had 3,34 million people between the ages of 20 and 24. The percentage of 2010 graduates in STEM fields is 0.75% of that group.

So, relatively, twice as many Dutchmen graduate in STEM fields than Spaniards and it’s certainly not a new trend. I think it’s safe to say that, relatively, the Netherlands has at least twice as many people who graduated in STEM fields.

Of course, my mention of engineers were just an example. The Netherlands is tiny, Spain is 11 times larger in area. That’s one of the reasons why the Netherlands has a far smaller group of agricultural workers. However, despite it being cramped, the Netherlands has more than half of the GDP Spain has.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#95

Post by batbomb »

codex wrote: post #78
michas wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Timezones were introduced exactly to prevent the very thing that you propose: need to adjust clocks a few seconds each day. It was just too annoying.

Sure, but software clocks could adjust themselves automatically based on your GPS location. Almost nobody uses a mechanical clock anymore.

The problem isn't where you are at, it's where you are going.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#97

Post by gordaco »

sentenza wrote: post #68
crazygringo wrote: post #66

What? This doesn't even begin to make sense, just like the article says in the beginning -- Americans are an hour off for the majority of the year, and it doesn't seem to be harming anything. If there's any kind of special Spanish fatigue, I can't believe it has anything to do with their timezone -- it's the entire cultural thing of sleeping/relaxing at siesta, and staying up late. Spaniards don't work late because o…

Hm. This does not quite agree with my experience. A few years back, when I lived in Madrid, I noticed that this city has an insane grind. To me it looked as if the culture there started off with a "begin work early, have siesta, end work late" setup, but at some point along the way they lost the siesta part. Many Spaniards work really hard all day, all week, then (at least the young ones) party just as hard all weeke…

Right. Siesta on working days? I don't think I've ever meet anyone whose job allows it, except teachers.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#98

Post by yebyen »

Oletros wrote: post #79
yebyen wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess everyone is slow after a two hour lunch having three or six cervezas for an extra hour or two of the afternoon? I don't know, that's a good question.

> I guess everyone is slow after a two hour lunch having three or six cervezas for an extra hour or two of the afternoon? What are you talking about?

I'm not accusing anyone of being an alcoholic, I just know what I would be doing if I had a mandatory 2-hour lunch every day! And it's not eating (probably not as much as I do now)

EDIT: On the chance that my ambiguous grammar has got you tied... in the right order, I would be a bit slow for an hour or two in the afternoon, after having three or six cervezas.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#99

Post by codex »

batbomb wrote: post #95
codex wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but software clocks could adjust themselves automatically based on your GPS location. Almost nobody uses a mechanical clock anymore.

The problem isn't where you are at, it's where you are going.

Easy enough to calculate your destination time via software as well. I wonder if 2D time zones would reduce cancer incidence by encouraging consistent melatonin production via a daylight synchronized sleep cycle.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#100

Post by Willyfrog »

peteratt wrote: post #86

As a Spaniard living in Chicago, I can't stress enough how AWESOME it is to have the time zone we have in Spain and how much I HATE when Sun sets at 4:30 PM in Winter in Chicago, despite being at comparable latitudes. All my Spanish friends here agree with me, if it was up to us we'd change Chicago's timezone to EST! And also for the other side, sun setting at 10 PM in Summer is Happiness with a capital H. Go ask Ger…

This is the real problem. The only way to cope with that is having a job you like. My week is by contract 40 hours long, but I do at least 45 and 50 is not uncommon either.
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