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Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

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31–40 of 43 posts

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#31

I don't get this. At all. The guy is in Macedonia, which might be his core problem. switching to the bay area, the situation is vastly different. We're constantly looking for coders. We had a summer internship program with astounding interns. We hire a mix of junior and senior coders. We have a full time college hiring person. Last week we had a developer open house event to show interested coders our company and pro…

Everyone is constantly looking for coders pretty much everywhere in the United States. There is absolutely nothing special about the Bay Area in that regard.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#32

> But, our guy Joe knew that he is capable of learning fast and working his ass off if he was given the chance. Chance. Yes, he located the problem – employers do not want to give chances. You can't be expected to get a job by saying "I know my grades are bad but I can learn!" You can get a job by saying "I know my grades are bad but look at all these projects I finished that show I can produce." Don't blame the comp…

If you have projects that show you can produce, why waste your time with an employer? You used to be most vulnerable right out of college when you had to find an employer to take you. Now, with how difficult it is to find employment straight out of school, it becomes an easier choice to freelance, do your own startup, etc.

Usually "I needed the money" is the common justification. Those other options can't guarantee to start supplying you an income in time to not lose your apartment.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#33
post #13

1) Inexperienced Joe's most pressing problem as a result of inexperience is attempting to find a job by looking at job ads. Joe does not yet know, but should learn, that most jobs in fact have no associated ad, and that jobs which do have ads are disproportionately jobs you do not want to apply for. Instead, Joe would have been better off attempting to get his name in front of people who have the authority to hire ju…

Adding to (1b): it's not just that companies will ignore some aspects of the job description as posted. For some companies, that description isn't intended to represent the expected contribution of a single employee -- if you read between the lines, it might be a description of a new team or of a new long-term initiative. The company might post it as though it were a job opening for an individual out of laziness, out of ignorance of what skills are actually needed, or in the hope that one magical developer will be able to do everything on their wish list.

Ultimately the company will want most, if not all, of the listed skills covered. However, if you can convince decisionmakers that you can successfully start addressing a subset of their needs today, as `patio11 says, then the company may recalibrate their posting to find someone (or multiple someones) to cover the remaining duties or provide training to you (or to existing staff) to shore things up.

The lesson is not to take a job description at face value. Setting aside the fact that some postings are written by people who don't actually understand the role, companies will always try to hire the most talented people for the least amount of money, as they ought to. But if hiring that one mythical ultra-developer is "shooting for the moon", then hiring someone who can effectively make inroads into the company's growth areas is "landing among the stars".

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#34
That's one problem that Launch Code[0] (a non-funded, non-profit community effort spearheaded by Jim McKelvey, founder of Square) is trying to solve. They grab a bunch of developers with little experience, a bunch of tech companies who both have and need experienced developers, and put the new developers in pair programming positions at the companies so that the developers gain experience and the company gains a developer.

The company I work for is participating, I'll be the experienced developer that is the primary pair, and I'm excited to see how it will unfold.

[0]: http://www.launchcodestl.com/

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#35
post #17
post #13

1) Inexperienced Joe's most pressing problem as a result of inexperience is attempting to find a job by looking at job ads. Joe does not yet know, but should learn, that most jobs in fact have no associated ad, and that jobs which do have ads are disproportionately jobs you do not want to apply for. Instead, Joe would have been better off attempting to get his name in front of people who have the authority to hire ju…

>that most jobs in fact have no associated ad so what should he do then; go into google maps and drop off a resume at every nearby engineering firm?

[deleted]

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#36

I don't get this. At all. The guy is in Macedonia, which might be his core problem. switching to the bay area, the situation is vastly different. We're constantly looking for coders. We had a summer internship program with astounding interns. We hire a mix of junior and senior coders. We have a full time college hiring person. Last week we had a developer open house event to show interested coders our company and pro…

> I don't get this. At all. The guy is in Macedonia, which might be his core problem. switching to the bay area, the situation is vastly different.

Switching to the bay area is NOT an easy thing to do for someone that is not from the USA. There are a lot of open positions across Europe as well, but, most of the countries have really tight immigration rules (visas, work permits, etc). To move from a third world country to an advanced country (USA, Germany, UK, whatever) you have to be exceptionally good. Not Average Joe.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#37
post #13

1) Inexperienced Joe's most pressing problem as a result of inexperience is attempting to find a job by looking at job ads. Joe does not yet know, but should learn, that most jobs in fact have no associated ad, and that jobs which do have ads are disproportionately jobs you do not want to apply for. Instead, Joe would have been better off attempting to get his name in front of people who have the authority to hire ju…

In regard to #1, this goes back to Joe having not attended a great school. The MITs and Stanfords of the world have career fairs with all the top employers in attendance. If Joe went to a public university in his home town, chances are good Joe's not going to come out of college with a good network so that he won't have to search job ads.

I agree on #2, and it's a shame more companies don't hire this way.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#38

There's an element of a collective action problem going on: why train your employees when they will most likely be gone in 3 years or two years or six months? Even if you retain half of them, you're still spending time training the other half---training that will reap you no benefit, and may even end up helping your competitor. People take better care of things they own , and higher employee mobility means that compa…

What happens if you don't train them and they stay?

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#39
This is a pretty common complaint among recent college grads. In my experience (both from the hiring and getting hired side) just because you don't have x years of experience in y doesn't mean don't bother with applying for a job that requires it. A lot of times those requirements are based on pretty minimal communication between the hiring manager and the HR person, and represents a bunch of qualities that the hiring manager would like the job seeker to have, but that doesn't mean that they're not willing to interview someone who lacks some of them. Resumes from recent grads are often looked at in a different light and aren't held up to the same standards as someone with 10 years of experience behind them. Apply anyway, be totally open about what you do and do not know (don't try to BS anyone, in other words), and you can still get some of those interviews and might get one of those jobs. Alternately, they might interview you for the more experienced position, decide that they really do need that experience for that position, but also decide that they like you and offer you a junior position instead.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have projects that show you can produce, why waste your time with an employer? You used to be most vulnerable right out of college when you had to find an employer to take you. Now, with how difficult it is to find employment straight out of school, it becomes an easier choice to freelance, do your own startup, etc.

Usually "I needed the money" is the common justification. Those other options can't guarantee to start supplying you an income in time to not lose your apartment.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/heres-ex...

45 percent of college grads move back in with their parents, and I'd argue have more time to get their cash flow together vs having an apartment.

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