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Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

eftimov.net

21–30 of 43 posts

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#21

"Last, but not least, how on Earth do they (employers) think that they can grow their company if they don’t train juniors? If you do not hire juniors, in ten years there won’t be any seniors left to hire." I think that this article has identified a serious risk here. Who is going to want to major in CS in the future if they know that the odds of getting an entry-level job in their field when they graduate are getting…

> Who is going to want to major in CS in the future if they know that the odds of getting an entry-level job in their field when they graduate are getting worse and worse?

All the college students are taking these as internships. Then, if they like the job, they work there.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#22

There's an element of a collective action problem going on: why train your employees when they will most likely be gone in 3 years or two years or six months? Even if you retain half of them, you're still spending time training the other half---training that will reap you no benefit, and may even end up helping your competitor. People take better care of things they own , and higher employee mobility means that compa…

Wow, that's a good point I hadn't realized before: if we make it harder for people to switch jobs, then companies will be more eager to hire people without experience, and will invest more in their education. Yet another reminder that economics is unintuitive...

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#23
For the most part I was an average Joe during school and after graduating. But I was only average because I didn't take school seriously, and I missed out on learning a lot of cool and/or basic things because of that, along with some awesome sounding jobs because I wasn't able to impress the interviewers. I started taking my career more seriously a couple months after graduating when I realized things wouldn't be handed to me anymore and taught myself a lot of things I missed while doing some extra projects. Eventually, and it was a painful wait, I found a junior level job by really impressing my interviewers. They exist and aren't hard to find if you're looking, especially if you're as good as you think you are. Very few companies asked for my gpa before interviewing, if the asked at all.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#24

One the best accidents in my life was getting a student job. Without the 'years of experience' it gave me, I don't think employers would have given me the time of day. With it, I did get the time of day and most places cared more about the work I'd been doing than the grades I'd been getting.

This is the only route I know of to get past the absurdity of "entry-level" job descriptions requiring 2–4 years experience.

I guess that is probably the easiest route, but definitely not the only one.

Work on a couple of projects, alone or with friends. Learn new stuff on your own. Be confident. From my experience this works like a charm.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#25
The way we think of junior/middle/senior developers is completely broken.

How many senior developers have you met, that we crap but were senior simply because the amount of years they have gained? And vice versa.

If entrepreneurs straight out of college can suddenly become the CTO of a start up and lead it success without any previous experience, what does that mean for the experience metric?

Experience is like market validation. If you have lasted years, you must be able to do something but it doesn't necessarily mean they are good. It just makes them a little more safe to justify, and I can't believe the amount of premium which is placed on that.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#26
We never run job ads for positions in our product team. In fact, we never have any open positions in that team. Instead, we have a very organic process of interns becoming employees.

Yes, it is slow. And we only retain one out of three - one drops out (of internship), one leaves for greener pastures shortly after graduation, and one sticks with the company for many years producing tons of value.

Any students reading this, find yourself a solid internship position as early as possible and you won't find yourself in Average Joe's shoes as Ile put it.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#27
I picked up a stupid book in a discount store when I was 20 called "Don't send a CV". It was full of unconventional ideas of how to get attention with intelligent ways. The pay-and-spray idea of resumes doesn't work for people generally, and as much as that dinky book was a dinky book and in a $1 bin at a discount store... it had a point.

Jobs are very much based on your location (i.e. in Australia there are way more tech jobs in Melbourne and Sydney, if you live in QLD, SA or WA you'll have a much smaller selection of places to work, thus less opportunity, some kinds of companies don't even exist on the fringes, and for example in AU the whole mega-corp silicon valley guys hardly exist at all!).

Welcome to capitalism. Job availability is a function of the markets, you gotta make yourself useful for the people around you otherwise you're screwed, and maybe we should be teaching people how to build businesses, albeit SMALL EFFECTIVE ones, not some disrupt-to-flip but something to pay for the kids and the two cars and living expenses. Nobody owes you anything, especially a job, and markets have said thus.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#29
unfortunately it can mean over-confident, though (or simply not understanding how clueless you are?)... we had a nice guy at work - young, friendly, ambitious. got some weird vibes a couple of times when i tried to help him out with problems, but thought little of it. then he leaves and i have to maintain his code. why the fuck didn't he ask for help?

and yes, this implies something about the company culture needs to be fixed. the blame certainly isn't all his.

Re: Inexperienced doesn't mean stupid

#30
I don't get this. At all. The guy is in Macedonia, which might be his core problem.

switching to the bay area, the situation is vastly different.

We're constantly looking for coders. We had a summer internship program with astounding interns. We hire a mix of junior and senior coders. We have a full time college hiring person. Last week we had a developer open house event to show interested coders our company and products.

Problem? We're on the other side of the Bay.

"Boring" Alameda County. Workday is here, Oracle, SAP, ServiceMax, etc. All hiring.

If you can't find a job as a developer in the Bay area, it's you.

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