Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Underscore Price Dynamics

marco.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 91 posts

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#41

Post by mikeash »

sami36 wrote: post #3

I never understood why in-app purchases have been branded as "evil" in the first place. As long as Apple doesn't offer developers a way to do trials, it's the closest way a customer can get a taste of an app's features, esthetics before deciding whether to pay or not for an app. EX : I wouldn't have paid 10$ for flighttrack pro without the in app purchase option. I would go as far as theorize that the main reason why…

IAP in general is fine, but a lot of these apps are bait-and-switch. They do not make it clear up-front that unlocking critical features requires payment. Games are the worst. There are so many "free" games which simply do not allow you to have fun without spending money. They claim to be free, but then it turns out you have to grind pointlessly unless you pony up the cash. It's gotten to the point where I won't bother with any free app that's listed as having IAPs.

I much prefer the "Lite" model, where you basically have a functional demo for free, then a separate paid app. Offer the paid features in the "Lite" version as an IAP too, if you think that helps.

What it comes down to is that a good transaction should be a net gain for both sides. I give you money, and in exchange I get something that's worth more to me than the money I give you. We both win! But the way many of these games are done, the creator deliberately makes their game less fun in order to make it more lucrative. It's no longer mutually beneficial. Rather than adding value to get more money from me, they actually reduce value to try to extract more cash.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#42

Post by eropple »

Osmium wrote: post #6

Flip-side on the IAP suggestion: I despise ads, but if I have an app with ads I can't bring myself to buy an in-app purchase to remove them for an app I probably won't use that often. Whereas if the app was just $.99 to start with, and it looks decent, I'd happily buy it even if I don't use it much. I wonder how this attitude would differ depending on whether you're an early adopter of the technology or whether you'r…

> I don't then want to load it up with cheap, ill-designed apps.

The depressing thing to me is how much of a minority thing this is. It's not platform-specific; Android sales have always lagged iOS in general, but the aggressive ugliness of Android apps and cheapness of Android users (don't get me wrong, fellow Android people, I use them as my daily drivers, I prefer them) has now just made the jump to iOS.

Which is insane. But, hey.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#43

Post by berzniz »

There is one hack that seems to work.

Keeping the app free for its first week on the store. This gets the app in the hands of the right people, the "early adopters". If the app is good, they'll use it and recommended it to friends long after the promotion week is over.

People are not afraid to pay when the trial was confirmed as a success by their friend (who is an iPhone genius).

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#44

Post by melling »

gdubs wrote: post #20
radley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just discovery. The land grab is over and established apps are well entrenched. There was a huge first-wave advantage for mobile apps. We just barely caught the end of it ourselves, so we're doing ok.

You're right, absolutely. For newcomers, it's an uphill battle to market even if there's no competition in the space.

It's hard to justify a lot of expense in marketing when you're getting 0-$1.99 per install. And that's for the lifetime of the app.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#45

Post by ruswick »

gdubs wrote: post #4

I think one of the main reasons it's so hard for new developers to make money is that -- as has been said so often -- discovery is broken on the App Store. The "new" category basically doesn't exist anymore, and even if it did there are a ton of new apps being released _daily_. For everyone's complaints about Apple's stringent review process, there's a ton of crapware on there, which makes customers really hesitant t…

I disagree. The issue is not exposure to customers, it is the mindset of customers. The market has matured as smartphones have become ubiquitous and free apps have come to dominate the market. Direct sales have simply faded because they are less lucrative at the highest level, and users have re-based their perceptions around that. Even if you could get your paid app to the top of the charts and attain maximum exposure, you would still make less than if you had used a fremium or ad-based model. Why do you think all the highest-grossing apps are free?

I don't think this is a particularly surprising phenomenon. People work very hard for their money and have far too little of it. If they can get something for free, why would they not? Moreover, if everyone else is distributing their thing for free, why on earth would people pay for anything?

Money is valuable because it is scarce, and if people can avoid paying, they will.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#46

Post by cs702 »

spolsky wrote: post #15

The only business models I want to work on any more have some mass-market component that is absolutely free, and a niche companion product that makes money off of the exhaust fumes of the mass-market component. The last two businesses I started are Stack Overflow, which is free, where the careers business on the side makes money on the small fraction of Stack Overflow users who are looking to get better jobs, and Tre…

Insightful.

On the other hand, many self-funded businesses are doing quite well charging for services targeted to non-mass markets -- for example, SmugMug (for professional photographers), FreshBooks (for invoicing & accounting), 37 Signals (for team productivity), etc. Some of these businesses are essentially one-person operations -- e.g., AppointmentReminder.org.

I would include FogBugz in this list.

"Make something and get people to pay for it" seems to works well for many vertical/specialized markets, some of which are quite large.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#47

Post by smsm42 »

ghshephard wrote: post #36
krmmalik wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the brand value approach I understand. Thing is, I don't really want to upsell to events and I agree regards consulting not being scalable, but i have a dilemma regards pricing for my course. I guess I need to give it more thought.

You know best - but don't overlook the possibility of in-person training for groups. It's halfway between an event and a training course. I just spent a couple weeks with 7 other people learning about Cisco Routers from a single instructor - Total cost was $7300 each - so, $50K for a two-week class. There's really good money in in-person class training.

Yes, just went on the similar thing for Elasticsearch - and a number of my colleagues did the same. It was around $800/day, and the class was about 20 people - so there's definitely some money in it.

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#48

Post by rshlo »

spolsky wrote: post #15

The only business models I want to work on any more have some mass-market component that is absolutely free, and a niche companion product that makes money off of the exhaust fumes of the mass-market component. The last two businesses I started are Stack Overflow, which is free, where the careers business on the side makes money on the small fraction of Stack Overflow users who are looking to get better jobs, and Tre…

Great example of this is Buffer app that makes $2MM from ~16K users and 1MM free users: http://blog.bufferapp.com/from-0-to-1000000-users-the-journe...

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#49

Post by josephlord »

ghshephard wrote: post #22
radley wrote: post #7

On Android a common method is free / prime. A free version has basic features while a paid prime apk acts as an unlocker for advanced features. Haven't heard of removing a free app and replacing with a paid. That doesn't make sense or work for anyone. That free app is an essential promotion. The only downside/difficulty is all the user support. Free users can be pretty rough.

The two removals mentioned by marco in his article were not a case of removing a free and replacing with a paid. In one case, it was removing the free competition to an already existing paid application. (Only works if there isn't other free competition in the market) The other case has started to really annoy me - it's where developers are starting to remove their version 1 application, and replace it with a version…

You can transfer the apps from iTunes even if they are no longer available. You can even keep old versions if you copy the .app files or rescue them from the recycle bin after the updated version is available. I suspect you can only install them on devices attached to the correct account and I'm not sure what happens with the Mac App Store (or Google Play, Windows store etc.)

Re: Underscore Price Dynamics

#50

Post by smsm42 »

crazygringo wrote: post #27

Is there anything in the app store TOS preventing developers from releasing, for example, free versions that are 14-day trials, that are upgraded to full version in-app, or else stop working? I have nothing against paying for apps, but after having been totally burned a bunch of times, I refuse to pay for an app I can't even try out first. Lots of people say "just look at the reviews", but they usually don't tell you…

IMHO this (disallowing trials) is a big mistake. I very rarely would buy an app that I can't try. Of course I can afford to lose $1 or whatever - it's not the cost but the fact that I had been scammed what would infuriate me. It would only make sense for the app makers to turn my loss aversion against me - if I already used the app for a couple of days and liked it, now the choice for me would be "lose it or pay measly $2" - and that would be completely different game. Given that Apple exercises total and absolute control over the whole ecosystem, it could easily make trial system that makes apps free for 3 days (or 15 days if the developer chooses) and then makes them stop working until you pay. I think it would make Apple ecosystem much more friendly to the user, because frankly reviews are usually worthless and screenshots etc. are not much help either.
Post reply on HN