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Steam Controller

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Re: Steam Controller

#311

Post by nilkn »

romaniv wrote: post #243
nilkn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Valve is effectively turning its back on the games (and gamers) that allowed it succeed despite competition from consoles. I don't see how they are turning their backs on anyone just because they're venturing into a new market segment. The current system, where people have both gaming PCs and separate gaming consoles, doesn't make a modicum of sense practically. It's just a vestige of old monopolies and corporate c…

I don't see how they are turning their backs on anyone just because they're venturing into a new market segment. Same way Microsoft turned its back on PC game(r)s with it's "Games for Windows" brand, which really is "Games for XBox shabbily ported to Windows". I thought one of the points of the Steam machines is that they're not locked down at all. Will it run games not distributed through Steam?

I don't follow your analogy at all.

Also, yes, I imagine you can run anything at all on the Steam machines.

Re: Steam Controller

#312

Post by ics »

w1ntermute wrote: post #309
kcbanner wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, have you tried playing an FPS on a mac, with its awful mouse acceleration?

This has been my biggest frustration with Macs. I've never been able to get used to the weird mouse acceleration curve. Using a non-Apple mouse usually makes things a little better, but it's still just not right. I even tried installing a 3rd party tool once to fix the issue, but it didn't help much.

Was it SmoothMouse[0]? We likely have different needs but I've been pretty satisfied since installing it, especially for my trackball.

[0]: http://smoothmouse.com/

Re: Steam Controller

#313

Post by w1ntermute »

ics wrote: post #312
w1ntermute wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my biggest frustration with Macs. I've never been able to get used to the weird mouse acceleration curve. Using a non-Apple mouse usually makes things a little better, but it's still just not right. I even tried installing a 3rd party tool once to fix the issue, but it didn't help much.

Was it SmoothMouse[0]? We likely have different needs but I've been pretty satisfied since installing it, especially for my trackball. [0]: http://smoothmouse.com/

Based on screenshots, it seems like it, but it's been a few years, so if it hasn't been around that long, then no.

Re: Steam Controller

#315

Post by slantyyz »

CatMtKing wrote: post #267
slantyyz wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you can modify the controls doesn't mean it's a good controller for all use cases. For example, it would be very difficult to do an ultra move in Street Fighter IV on one of these pads -- i.e., quarter-circle-forward x 2 (LP + MP + HP). A standard d-pad with tactile buttons is much more precise.

How about mapping the triggers to LP/MP/HP and what you would normally have on the triggers to the right trackpad?

Might work for some people, but I'm personally used to using a fighting gamepad that has six face buttons in the standard 'Capcom' orientation.

People who learned Capcom fighting games on normal pads are usually OK with triggers, but I learned on a stick, so using the triggers goes against my muscle memory as I still use a stick regularly as well. My fighting pad, however, is much more portable than my stick.

Re: Steam Controller

#316

Post by jamesgeck0 »

phaus wrote: post #297
gcb0 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a trackball heavy user (i use both thumb and index ones, with both hands) I avoid playing FPS without a mouse! the thumbs trackball is more precise. But still not good. A good and cheap microsoft mouse is always with me when i'm playing FPSs. Also, even if the control wasn't an issue, no trackball has more than 300DPI. EVER. The minimum for mouses is 400. I don't know why that is. But even the overly expensive Ken…

I wholeheartedly agree that trackballs suck for FPS games, but most pro FPS players advocate keeping the mouse at a fairly low DPI, so that deficiency isn't really the problem. I have trouble believing that any device that relies on thumb-only input is going to be anywhere near as good as a mouse, but I hope I'm proven wrong.

Trackballs really aren't _that_ terrible for precision in FPS. Not pro level, but heckuva lot better than the joystick control consoles currently use. I found I had a harder time in StarCraft than I did in UT2K4, but both were quite playable.

I used a Logitech Trackman for seven years, and the biggest issue was that the force required to move the ball around wasn't constant; it would vary depending on how gunked up the little rollers inside had gotten. I had to clean mine out every day to keep it smooth.

Re: Steam Controller

#318

Post by kalid »

noonespecial wrote: post #276
anonymous wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse, which I do with all 5 of my fingers (for tiny movements) or from my shoulder (for larger movements). If thumb touchpads were good for FPS games, how come nobody is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad? Maybe I'm just old, but I don't see myself ever being able to use this.

Controllers like this are notoriously hard to get right. The tiniest details matter immensely and mean the difference between joyous and unusable. There's just no way to judge a controller without physically holding it and walking an FPS mile with it as your shoes. I spent the early 90's going from one giant, gaudy "flight stick" to the next, never knowing that what I really wanted was a pair of miniature thumb-stick…

Thank you for saying this. Logical arguments, especially around fuzzy notions like the feel of a controller, are useful for prioritizing the hypotheses we test. But not for deciding on them.

Given 15 different controller designs, use logic to figure out what order you test them/build them. But at the end, it comes down to the feel.

Re: Steam Controller

#319

Post by PhasmaFelis »

vegardx wrote: post #303
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"No one has ever been able to match the precision and control of mouse+kb" Someone did some tests a while back with a gamepad-trackball (trackball replacing the right thumbstick). They found that pro PC FPS gamers did just as well with it as with mouse+keyboard, after a short adjustment period. Here's some quotes from the most recent attempt (out of three that I know of) to crowdfund one of those ( http://www.kicksta…

When you make bold statements you generally have to back it up with some evidence. I find it really hard to believe that anyone has the level off accuracy and speed that you get from a good keyboard/mouse combo. It is a reason that console games come with built in auto aim on all FPS shooters...

I'm looking for the original study I saw. I haven't found it yet, but here's one that found that trackballs were superior to thumbsticks, even for users familiar with gamepads and not trackballs (hardly a revelation, certainly, but you'd be surprised how many people contest it): http://www.yorku.ca/mack/FuturePlay1.html

But come now, my original statement was hardly all that bold. Obviously the reason that gamepad aiming sucks is just that thumbstick aiming sucks. Replace the thumbstick, solve the problem. (And as a bonus, get analog movement as well as analog aiming--the traditional WASD doesn't allow for speed gradations.) I used to game exclusively with a trackball and never had any troubles. The only reason I stopped is that nobody makes trackballs for left-handers anymore that are any damn good. And if you don't believe me, I just gave you a couple of quotes from gaming professionals.

Re: Steam Controller

#320

Post by kaoD »

icambron wrote: post #268
zanny wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any game with a PC version that is vetted as a competitive esport will find its pc version, with superior and portable control interfaces, to be the choice for competition. See: CoD, Battlefield, Quake, etc. All prefer exact aiming with a mouse over fudging analog input sticks with aim assist. By your wording, no, console gamers don't use keyboards / mice, because the games they play on consoles are not compatible wi…

It sounds like you're defining "hardcore gamer" as a competitive professional or semi-professional gamer. If so, I guess that's fine, but irrelevant to whether Valve will sell a lot of controllers. That's just not an important demographic. Much more important is the platform market share for hardcore games, like CoD and Battlefield. It simply isn't true that people prefer the PC version [1], despite the inferior cont…

> I recognize this doesn't include Steam sales

Who buys retail games anymore?

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