Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Steam Controller

store.steampowered.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 370 posts

Re: Steam Controller

#161

Post by jlgreco »

kgermino wrote: post #145
jlgreco wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can move a finger a lot faster than a whole arm. If you're moving your arm to move your mouse, there is probably something wrong with your mouse.

If you're moving your arm to move your mouse IIRC I've always been old that I should move my whole arm with the mouse. The idea being that it's a small movement for your elbow/shoulder but a much larger movement for you wrist so you can avoid wrist injuries by moving your whole arm.

Ideally you move your fingers, not your arm or wrist. Realistically though, nobody is playing games by moving their arm, even if that is perhaps what you are suppose to do.

I mean, those same ergonomics guides also tell you to keep your back straight and your feet flat on the floor in front of you. How many people do that?

Re: Steam Controller

#162

Post by jlgreco »

w1ntermute wrote: post #160
jlgreco wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On thinkpads you can press the middle mouse button (below the spacebar) then press the trackpoint up or down. I have always usually done this, but also remapped the trackpad to be entirely a "scrollpad"

> On thinkpads you can press the middle mouse button (below the spacebar) then press the trackpoint up or down. Yep, and you can also click and release the middle mouse button, then separately mouse up or down. Interestingly, I have only been able to get either this OR the press then scroll behavior you described working on Windows (by toggling a setting), but in Linux you can have both enabled at the same time.

Bizarrely, Linux seems to support much of the trackpoint/trackpad stuff on thinkpads better than Windows does. I use to not be able to configure the trackpad how I wanted on Windows, but the Synaptics driver for Linux gave me plenty of possibilities.

Re: Steam Controller

#163

Post by bluedino »

amalcon wrote: post #19
eterm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops all moved from nipples to trackpads a long time ago, surely if analog sticks could provide higher resolution then that wouldn't have happened, or there would have been a move back?

Not all . Lenovo still provides eraser nub-style pointers on many models. I personally find them to be more accurate at high speeds than a touchpad. I actually have no idea how people can use touchpads. You need a huge one to be able to go corner-to-corner in one swipe and still have reasonable accuracy.

As does HP and Dell

Re: Steam Controller

#164

Post by ufo »

skriticos2 wrote: post #151
ihsw wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I think Half-Life 3 will be worth the weight.

I thought software did not weight anything - oh wait..

The "worth the weight" thing is a joke. Theres an urban legend that says that the HL3 release gets postponed by 1 month every time someone makes a joke about Gabe Newell being fat.

Re: Steam Controller

#165

Post by sliverstorm »

w1ntermute wrote: post #50
spongle wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have agreed with you once, but I broke the trackpad on a ThinkPad a couple of years ago and out of apathy i switched to the nipple mouse and I haven't looked back. It takes more practice but it has excellent precision and infinite movement. The trackpad remains broken and unplugged.

I've had several ThinkPads, and I've always disabled the trackpad in the BIOS as soon as I got a new one - it's totally unnecessary when you have the TrackPoint. It's so much faster and more precise. Like amalcon said, I have no idea how anyone can use a trackpad. Whenever I watch a friend use one, or use one myself, it's like the mouse is moving in slow motion compared to me using the TrackPoint. It does take some p…

Trackpoint is great, but I've been trying to move away from its use. I've found after frequent use, my finger tip gets irritated- I suspect mechanics similar to the development of a blister are at play- and they haven't been good for my hand overall. I've forced myself to use trackpads and mice now, because they are much lower impact on my hand. I can keep my hand completely relaxed when using a trackpad.

Re: Steam Controller

#166

Post by jlgreco »

NoodleIncident wrote: post #74
Osiris wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate touchpads. I use an external mouse with my Macbook. I have a Dell D830 with the nub pointer and it was so much easier to use, especially considering that you don't have to remove your hands from the keyboard and your finger doesn't need to cross 3 inches of space to move across the screen.

I've always been confused by this argument. I can reach my trackpad with my right thumb without moving any of my other fingers off of the home row. Is this an unusual amount of flexibility?

I find it very difficult to get the sort of control that I want with my thumbs.

Re: Steam Controller

#167

Post by roc »

cheald wrote: post #140
Arelius wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to provide the some precision that a mouse can, not replicate sticks... If that were the case, they would have just put sticks on the thing.

You can trivially replicate joystick behavior with a touchpad - note how the controller has a raise "home" circle in the middle. This is almost certainly so that it can be used as a joystick, where the input is based on how far from center the thumb is, rather than the thumb's absolute position on the touchpad.

Albeit without any of the tactile value of the tension of an analog stick. [1] Nor an absolute, physically constrained, "max" position: where the stem of an analogue stick is pressed against the edge of its container. [2]

A trackpad seems like it will very easily allow your thumb to drift from a position of sending maximally-distant-from-center input to not registering any input. That's going to be a huge usability problem.

And making assumptions about what a user might have meant should a thumb just happen to slide off the edge of a trackpad is going to be problematic. [3]

[1] What would you call a 360 or dual shock controller with analog sticks that have no tension-to-center anymore? Broken.

[2] Think of how often you feel/hear that little analog stick "clack". Think of how often you're pressing against that physical boundary to ensure maximal-distance input. Each of those moments is an opportunity for a trackpad to present a problem. And those moments are awfully common. It's likely they're more common than not.

[3] did their thumb slide off, or did they raise it? did i slide off on accident or on purpose? etc

EDIT: cleaned up phrasing

Re: Steam Controller

#168

Post by Pxtl »

sliverstorm wrote: post #159
cheald wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The nice thing is that a high-DPI trackpad can act as both a relative-input joystick (movement based on how far from center you are) and an absolute-input pointing device (movement based on absolute position in the device's input field). Joysticks can do this, too, but their DPI is frequently nowhere even close to acceptable for this kind of work - they tend to be somewhere in the 200-400 DPI range, when your average…

Problem with an absolute-input pointing device in this case is your thumb. In the world of ultra-high DPI touch input, your thumb is a veritable cudgel.

A gazillion text messages have been sent by thumbs hunting for keys. This won't be a perfect interface, but it will beat the ever-loving-crap of trying to use a joystick for a pointing-device's job.

Re: Steam Controller

#169

Post by joenathan »

Arjuna wrote: post #124

"Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller's resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse." [...] "The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads." Wow. It sounds as though they have man…

How would one play something like Street Fighter with this controller, the button placement seems like it wouldn't allow for a good experience with fighters or even platformers.

Re: Steam Controller

#170

Post by paulgerhardt »

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you have two smaller independent planes for each thumb). For FPS's it will really shine, but keep in mind that Valve also makes DOTA2 so I'm sure they're more than aware of the need to make this work across genres.

For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I imagine they have spent many iterations on the problem, and I am very excited to see the fruits of their labor.

[1] Full disclosure, by some odd coincidence she happens to be my sister and also did the industrial design for Lockitron so I am wayy biased here.

Post reply on HN