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China to launch space station by 2023

bbc.co.uk

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Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#61

Post by ChuckMcM »

melange wrote: post #50
ChuckMcM wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find China a particularly fascinating country in this regard, very little true visibility into their capabilities and a very different culture. When they said they would put a man on the moon, I believed they would do everything they could to make that happen. A friend of mine disagreed saying it was "too expensive", except expense doesn't really work at the nation state level except in terms of understanding alloc…

Why does being first to put up a gas station matter? What stops other countries from putting up their own?

Because once you've got a gas station up there you can do things faster, and less expensively than folks who don't have that capability.

Anyone "can" do it, but there are a bunch of technologies that have to be mastered before it can be done (sort of like the nuclear fuel cycle). So the US has the lead here but with a sprint I don't doubt the Russians could do it as well, and eventually the Chinese.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#62

Post by ianstallings »

pavs wrote: post #55
pm90 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All good points, but we're talking about how a country treats its _own_ citizens. And in this regards, the US is far better than most other countries, most certainly China.

USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the americ…

Well, why don't you pack your stuff up and go home? It's terrible here after all.

It gets old, people coming to the US because they see opportunity, and then being entitled sanctimonious fools. Never lifting a hand to make it better, but quick to pipe up when it's time to critique, making broad statements about how everyone here is so misinformed.

You think the average person in China is any different than the average American? Over 110M+ Chinese people can't even read. I really doubt they are over contemplating all of the human-rights abuses in the world by nation-states, including their own. And I bet they sleep just fine too.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#63

Post by pavs »

ianstallings wrote: post #62
pavs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has the highest incarceration rate than any country in the world. I have lived in USA for 12 years of my life, perception of having freedom and actually having freedom is not the same thing. At least from my experience I can tell you that most americans don't even know the difference. So much so that most americans will somehow find a justification for all the international crimes against humanity that the americ…

Well, why don't you pack your stuff up and go home? It's terrible here after all. It gets old, people coming to the US because they see opportunity, and then being entitled sanctimonious fools. Never lifting a hand to make it better, but quick to pipe up when it's time to critique, making broad statements about how everyone here is so misinformed. You think the average person in China is any different than the averag…

I did pack my stuff and go home... But something to remember, having a problem with the American Government doesn't mean having a problem with the american people. Too many people confuses that.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#64

Post by ianstallings »

pavs wrote: post #63
ianstallings wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, why don't you pack your stuff up and go home? It's terrible here after all. It gets old, people coming to the US because they see opportunity, and then being entitled sanctimonious fools. Never lifting a hand to make it better, but quick to pipe up when it's time to critique, making broad statements about how everyone here is so misinformed. You think the average person in China is any different than the averag…

I did pack my stuff and go home... But something to remember, having a problem with the American Government doesn't mean having a problem with the american people. Too many people confuses that.

You weren't talking about the American Government when you said "most Americans" and then went on to basically say that their attitude is disgusting. I didn't confuse anything.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#65

Post by jccooper »

varjag wrote: post #44
Scriptor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to really quantify scientific returns as a per-dollar measure. The space station has provided a place to do countless experiments that could only be done by people in space. Of course, the results of these experiments rarely make it into pop science articles so they're not often publicized. But they do happen and it's important not to just brush them aside as not worth the cost of the station itself.

> The space station has provided a place to do countless experiments that could only be done by people in space. Most of these experiments though were about effect of space on humans, no? It's a bit of circular reasoning. Even with those, I'm not sure there was really any big discovery since the previous Mir/Salyut/Skylab decades of orbital hanging around.

ISS has made a lot of progress on learning and ameliorating the effects of 0g on humans. It's only about this year that techniques to control bone loss over the long term have gotten really good. Astronauts can now routinely return after six months not crippled, which is a huge advance on the state of knowledge circa Mir.

Yes, most of the science on ISS is human science, related to 0g, and it is pretty expensive, but there's not much other way to do it. I'm not sure that 0g habitation has a long-term future (it's still not very good for you) but we wouldn't really know that without the ISS.

It also hosts plenty of materials science and remote sensing experiments along with the biology and space medicine. It's a weird environment that we're only just beginning to figure out.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#66

Post by pavs »

ianstallings wrote: post #64
pavs wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did pack my stuff and go home... But something to remember, having a problem with the American Government doesn't mean having a problem with the american people. Too many people confuses that.

You weren't talking about the American Government when you said "most Americans" and then went on to basically say that their attitude is disgusting. I didn't confuse anything.

Lets break it down and I am sure I might have been a little confusing myself.

- I condemn the American Government.

- I condemn most of the American people for their general apathy towards the human rights violations of their government both outside and inside their country.

- But I also realize that the American Government have most americans either too busy, too distracted or have them misinformed through propaganda campaign to have any serious widespread opposition to their action. The Government have all powerful multiple secret service organization that works full time to make sure there is no serious threat to the government status quo (among other things), under the pretence of national security.

- I can go on say that the actions of the government should not make the people of the country complacent of their crimes. After many generations of the same old foreign policy, this line of talk starts of get a little old, at some point someone need to stand up say you should also be just as liable as your government because even after knowing their crimes, you didn't do anything about it.

So yes, I do have a problem with the American Government, and I do think most americans are fault for not checking their government - BUT I don't have any problem with american people in general.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#67

Post by ianstallings »

pavs wrote: post #66
ianstallings wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You weren't talking about the American Government when you said "most Americans" and then went on to basically say that their attitude is disgusting. I didn't confuse anything.

Lets break it down and I am sure I might have been a little confusing myself. - I condemn the American Government. - I condemn most of the American people for their general apathy towards the human rights violations of their government both outside and inside their country. - But I also realize that the American Government have most americans either too busy, too distracted or have them misinformed through propaganda…

Well I agree with a lot of what you said there, almost all of it in fact. I do think we have problems and I do hate the apathy also. I am very critical of government and when I see others ignoring issues I get incredibly annoyed. Now that you've expounded on it I think I agree. At first I took it as just another guy bashing the US, which these days is an easy target. But I was wrong.

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#68

Post by randallsquared »

mahyarm wrote: post #53
cygwin98 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only a bit hypocritical. There are actual degrees of hypocrisy! I don't get this. Did you mean there are 50% hypocrites and 90% hypocrites? And the 50% hypocrites can always laugh it out at the 90% hypocrites, because he/she may think he/she has a moral high ground due to less hypocrisy. Heck, that's mouthful.

It's a matter of degree. The difference between a thief who steals bread, a thief who steals cars and a thief who steals %10 of GDP through political and financial trickery.

Kind of a bell curve, then? :/

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#69

Post by ChuckMcM »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #37
javindo wrote: post #13

Thought I'd comment before the typical anti-Chinese-Engineering brigade shows up. In my opinion, Chinese engineering is a wonder to behold in an era of modern western bureaucracy killing amazing projects. I realise Chinese politics are so far the other way they can be just as bad in different ways, but if China had the same level of bureaucracy as the west their insane Beijing-Shanghai high speed rail link would have…

I find China a particularly fascinating country in this regard, very little true visibility into their capabilities and a very different culture. When they said they would put a man on the moon, I believed they would do everything they could to make that happen. A friend of mine disagreed saying it was "too expensive", except expense doesn't really work at the nation state level except in terms of understanding alloc…

Note it is an active investigation at NASA as well for on-orbit propellent operations: https://flightopportunities.nasa.gov/technologies/3/

Re: China to launch space station by 2023

#70

Post by bayesianhorse »

cygwin98 wrote: post #11
bayesianhorse wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese call one of theses lists their constitution.

This is hypocritical. US and the whole Western world is not any better on this.

So essentially, because the whole western world isn't perfect, we are not any better in terms of human rights and democracy than the PRC which hardly even tries?
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