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At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

theguardian.com

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Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#131

Post by rayiner »

flumbaps wrote: post #92
waps wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand. What exactly are you saying is not true : 1) islam is a system of laws 2) those laws include slavery 3) people who are fighting to introduce those laws to society are reintroducing legal slavery 4) the muslim world is the major hotbet of slavery Copious evidence for all claims is easy to come by. Start with : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery And if you want to hear it from an…

Islam isn't a system of laws, it's a religion. Like all organised religions, what's written in its holy books is of far less practical importance than what is preached by its leaders. Adherents don't read and figure out for themselves, they follow what they are told the books say. Like most religious leaders, the Islamic holy men tend to preach what is convenient to them. The fact that the religion is Islam isn't of…

> Islam isn't a system of laws, it's a religion.

That's a very secular western view of religion. The distinction between law and religion is one seems important to people familiar with Christianity, because that religion has historically existed alongside a state with a separate system of laws (either English common law or some derivative of Roman civil law). It's a distinction that makes a lot less sense in Islam, which has historically not existed alongside a separate state, but has been an integral foundation for the state.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#132

Post by marrs »

waps wrote: post #69
azth wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very curious about where s/he's pulling all that from too. First time I ever hear that killing slaves is OK in Islam! Or that freeing slaves is only allowed after they served in a military campaign.

"Evidence from slaves is rarely viable in a court of law. As slaves are regarded as inferior in Islamic law, death at the hands of a free man does not require that the latter be killed in retaliation.[81] The killer must pay the slave's master compensation equivalent to the slave's value, as opposed to blood-money. At the same time, slaves themselves possess a lessened responsibility for their actions, and receive ha…

Spoken like a true Islamic Extremist. Find the teachings that support your argument and then use them to brand everyone who disagrees with you as not being a true believer.

It's a peculiar mind that can ignore the fundamental values of morality and kindness, and go straight for the edge cases that justify your warped sense of righteousness.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#133

Post by aestra »

hrrsn wrote: post #130
aestra wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thinking hasn't been eliminated in the West.

It's still hard for most people to understand this.

In 2013 - Students in Wilcox County Georgia hold FIRST racially integrated prom!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/29/17967090-students...

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#134

Post by projectramo »

Slavery in Qatar has nothing to do with religion.

This is the equivalent of taking some example of modern day slavery (say the 20 million alleged http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/19/19042103-modern-d...) and then saying this is part of US history.

Saying slavery is inherently Islamic is like saying slavery is inherently American. And then for proof, going over centuries of quotes about slaves, beatings of slaves, violence during desegregation and the whole entire ugly history of race relations.

Anyone remotely well read knows this is absurd. That what is happening is a matter of individual greed and not some systemic mind control.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#136

Post by DharmaPolice »

kps wrote: post #19
dajohnson89 wrote: post #10

Why is this not front-page news of mainstream media? (I know why, it's because it's not profitable). But where is the outrage? Why is fighting back restricted to a few NGOs and some back office of the Nepalese government?

The Guardian is Britain's third biggest newspaper, and the slavery story is on the front page. Close enough?

What metric are you using for third biggest? The national figures I've seen put the Guardian in a pretty lowly 10th place in terms of circulation. Even if you exclude most of the popular papers (i.e. tabloids) and look only at broadsheets then the Guardian is still only 4th (of 5).

The Guardian certainly punches above it's weight through its internet site the paper itself is nowhere near as big as the other papers.

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/media/table/2013/jul/15/abcs-nati...

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#137

Post by Mikeb85 »

marrs wrote: post #123
Mikeb85 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Islam absolutely contains a set of laws. For the Muslim, you cannot have the religion without the law. Even in countries where Islam is the minority, disputes between Muslims are settled by a community Islamic court...

This is true, but besides the point. Laws on how to treat slaves are redundant in a country where slavery is illegal. And there is nothing in Islam to say that keeping slaves is compulsory or even desirable.

People operate under the law all the time. I know of plenty of places where polygamy is practiced, despite being illegal in those countries...

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#138

Post by [deleted] »

codebolt wrote: post #88
the_rosentotter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, that was at once an impressive and disgusting array of not just wrong but ill-willed information, basically from start to finish. You don't deserve a full rebuttal, but just in case anyone should be in doubt. For just one example, Islamic law practically guarantees the eventual freeing of slaves. It is probably the most highlighted charitable act described in shariah. Missing a day of fasting must be atoned for…

Freeing a slave for missing a day of fasting? If that's the most charitable act in Sharia then you pretty much proved his point. And regardless of how people practice Islam, its texts are full of crap that I'll never have any respect for. Fuck Islam.

[deleted]

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#139

Post by Tzunamitom »

lake99 wrote: post #93
Tzunamitom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're looking for a religion to blame, start with capitalism. Islam has nothing to do with this. While you're at it you can start by looking at how unrepresentative of the Muslim world (if you an even use that term) the Gulf countries are - India and Indonesia are both home to many times more Muslims than the Gulf but yet you continue to judge the adherents of a religion by the actions of a few small countries ma…

> Islam has nothing to do with it @waps has already posted a link to [1] > start with capitalism Do you think it is "capitalism" when employers are not honouring contracts that they created, and their employees signed? After you have learnt what capitalism means, you'll see that the article is rich with examples of violations of capitalism. I don't know about Indonesia, but India is, not by any stretch of imagination…

Dear Sir,

I would love to debate with you. If I did I would point out studies that show the historical necessities of state intervention into laissez-faire capitalism to prevent abuse of asymmetrical relationships, I would point to monopolistic behaviour, and the tendency of an unrestrained capitalistic system to undermine the workings of its own free market. I would draw upon my own experiences of living in the Gulf, visiting labour camps, talking to migrant workers (mostly themselves also Muslim), and perhaps gently suggest that your armchair judgment of over 1.5 billion people (25% of the world's population) based on a couple of hastily googled sites from a fringe cleric and a single reported court case is not necessarily accurate or fair. I might ask you to compare the number of Muslims in the Gulf with the number of Muslims in India and Indonesia, and then tell you happy anecdotes of my many visits to these countries and the wonderful people I met. I might explain the difference between doctrinal theory and practical exigencies, and faulty interpretations based on fear and greed spread by power hungry clerics (I'd pause of course to muse at the irony drawn from the parallels with capitalism), and then discuss similar dichotomies evident in the practice of Christianity in the West. I'd conclude with the realisation that the problems inherent in the treatment of migrant workers are myriad and complex, and cannot be distiller into a simple judgment against any belief system.

I'd love to do all these things, but sadly I am a longtime believer in the maxim that "If you argue with a fool, then there are two fools arguing", so sadly I must decline.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#140

Post by smsm42 »

mcv wrote: post #91
auctiontheory wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not paint all countries in the Middle East with the same brush. How many Middle Eastern countries (besides Israel) have anything resembling democracy, or equal rights for women, or any rights for gay people?

Israel is lacking in such rights as well. It's not exactly a shining example for the rest of the Middle East.

Implying there are many Middle East countries that have better record on woman or gay rights, for example, than Israel? Care to name a few?

Israel has its problems, but compared to the rest of the ME, it is a shining example.

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