At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
61–70 of 166 posts
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
| Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview? Except anarchists, I think "Randians" and most "free market advocates" are in favor of court (government) enforcement of contracts. > He was 16 There's a concept of "age of consent" or "capacity" to contract. > arranging a fake passport stating he was 20 Fraud. > wages retained Who would sign a contract like this…
It's a good thing it's illegal, that way these people can fight it in the courts with all the access to legal assistance they have. One of the biggest drawbacks to the libertarian 'fight-it-out-in-court' mindset is that it considers everyone to be equal, but only if they can afford a lawyer. The people that libertarianism fails the most are the people we're talking about right now.
Forget affording a lawyer, they can't even read the contracts that they sign in the first place as they don't read Arabic. Hell some don't even read or write, and have to put an 'X' where their signature should be. Even if they could read it they'd sign anyway, because shit what choice do they have when the family needs feeding? We're talking about asymmetry the like of which people in the developed world cannot begin to comprehend, and that is the reason that unrestrained free markets can never operate effectively.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
My usual take on these things is it's more about money and what you can get away with locally than the character of the religions themselves. Lots of very christian Americans had very christian outlooks on slavery being legal in the 1850s, and on unequal rights being the way of things (noah and ham) up until the 1960s. If I were looking for a religion that didn't have a history of justifying slavery, I'd point to may…
Well, there are different flavours of crhistianity as well as different flavours of islam. While christian Americans did indeed support slavery, the eastern (Orthodox) christianity was never involved in such behaviour. I'm pretty sure that not all islamic countries were openly supporting slavery, it's just the desert ones. That being said, I agree that it's more middle east phenomenon that islam phenomenon. The other…
Orthodox church supported serfdom, monasteries owned peasants.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...
Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…
Ugh, that was at once an impressive and disgusting array of not just wrong but ill-willed information, basically from start to finish.
You don't deserve a full rebuttal, but just in case anyone should be in doubt.
For just one example, Islamic law practically guarantees the eventual freeing of slaves. It is probably the most highlighted charitable act described in shariah. Missing a day of fasting must be atoned for by freeing a slave.
But as said, everything you said is wrong and the spirit you said it in is despicable. Fuck you, honestly.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
My usual take on these things is it's more about money and what you can get away with locally than the character of the religions themselves. Lots of very christian Americans had very christian outlooks on slavery being legal in the 1850s, and on unequal rights being the way of things (noah and ham) up until the 1960s. If I were looking for a religion that didn't have a history of justifying slavery, I'd point to may…
Well, there are different flavours of crhistianity as well as different flavours of islam. While christian Americans did indeed support slavery, the eastern (Orthodox) christianity was never involved in such behaviour. I'm pretty sure that not all islamic countries were openly supporting slavery, it's just the desert ones. That being said, I agree that it's more middle east phenomenon that islam phenomenon. The other…
Women not being allowed to vote is actually an inherent flaw of democracy: Those who are allowed to vote decide who else may vote. All democratic countries make this kind of decision for many groups. Voting age, if and when immigrants may vote, whether to let people convicted of a felony or prisoners vote: all of these are cases of the voters deciding on who else will share their privilege. Switzerland was just slightly different because referendums are binding and were not overturned by the supreme courts, and the discriminated group was more visible/obvious.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…
>>This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" This has nothing to do with Islam. This is all about money and a few rich idiots abusing their power. Bulk of the practices you associate with any religion, are not that of a religion but that of the local civilization at that point of time. Your post resembles the attitude of the western masses today, which is to hold the perception created b…
I don't understand. What exactly are you saying is not true :
1) islam is a system of laws
2) those laws include slavery
3) people who are fighting to introduce those laws to society are reintroducing legal slavery
4) the muslim world is the major hotbet of slavery
Copious evidence for all claims is easy to come by. Start with : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery And if you want to hear it from an imam: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/94840 (note that many of the "advantages" slaves had are the exact same as they had in the Roman Empire. An owner, for example, would generally treat his own educated slaves better than fellow free men)
If you want to be completely horrified by this site, just read the category http://www.islam-qa.com/en/cat/362
Some examples, and the TLDR
"Islam and slavery" (TLDR: taking slaves is allowed "in war" and buying them and kidnapping them. There are lots of rules about slaves)
"Intercourse with female prisoners of war." (TLDR: allowed for men)
"What is the ruling on intimacy with slave women?" (TLDR: allowed for men)
"Intercourse with a slave woman is not regarded as zina (adultery)" (TLDR: true, provided certain conditions are met. Also: A muslim man fucking a non-muslim woman is perfectly OK if not done in an islamic country, because any muslim is at war with everyone outside of muslim countries) (note how he squirms to avoid saying what the ruling is on muslims living in non-muslim nations. Why ? Because that's punishable by death, except for soldiers and -maybe- ambassadors. Where do you live ?) ...
Your "evidence" that this is not true, is, as I read it :
a) 1/3rd of the world follows islam (in reality, it's probably between 1/5th and 1/6th)
b) "no-one wakes with knives searching for slaves to kill" (that's not allowed, btw, you have to buy them first)
c) Winston Churchill is a hypocrit with often similar socialist eugenic standpoints as the people he fought -> not a surprise to anyone who knows a smitten of history. Nobody denies he was a keen observer and a very effective leader either.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...
Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…
> Islam and specifically the second Caliphate is the only state in history that has a documented history of killing slaves for fun).
Ancient Rome would like to disagree.
> Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion.
Buddhism would like to disagree, probably many more. I'm sure there was forced labor of some kind pretty much everywhere, but that doesn't make it part of the religion, and I'd also say that that it's a too-broad definition. Slavery IMO implies more than just forced labor without compensation: it implies that people are considered property.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#68""" ...Nepalese men and women leave their towns and villages for jobs overseas. More than 100,000 head to Qatar, where a booming construction industry and insatiable appetite for cheap labour has been fuelled by its successful bid to host the 2022 World Cup... """ Just like Rome's slaves built the Colosseum so that the upper classes could keep the masses entertained to keep exploiting them. We really have not learned…
The difference here is that the stadiums will likely stay empty during the world cup.
They are litterally doing that for nothing.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is not part of Islam, since you don't find it going on in Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Islamic Africa, or the West where muslims live as well. This is instead confined to the Gulf states. I'm really very curious about where you're pulling all this stuff from.
I'm very curious about where s/he's pulling all that from too. First time I ever hear that killing slaves is OK in Islam! Or that freeing slaves is only allowed after they served in a military campaign.
"Evidence from slaves is rarely viable in a court of law. As slaves are regarded as inferior in Islamic law, death at the hands of a free man does not require that the latter be killed in retaliation.[81] The killer must pay the slave's master compensation equivalent to the slave's value, as opposed to blood-money. At the same time, slaves themselves possess a lessened responsibility for their actions, and receive half the penalty required upon a free man. For example: where a free man would be subject to a hundred lashes due to pre-marital relations, a slave would be subject to only fifty. Slaves are allowed to marry only with the owner's consent. Jurists differ over how many wives a slave may possess, with the Hanafi and Shafi'i schools allowing them two, and the Maliki school allowing four. Slaves are not permitted to possess or inherit property, or conduct independent business, and may conduct financial dealings only as a representative of the master. Offices of authority are generally not permitted for slaves, though a slave may act as the leader (Imam) in the congregational prayers, and he may also act as a subordinate officer in the governmental department of revenue.[10][82] Masters may sell, bequeath, give away, pledge, hire out or compel them to earn money.[47]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery (following the links you'll find the following quotes)
"The same punishment was imposed on believers and what is similar to the act of the crime in the case of a homicide, by virtue of description or actuality. A freeman should be killed for another freeman but not for a slave, a female for a female, but a Muslim (even if he is a slave) must not be killed for an infidel, even if that infidel is a freeman." Jalalan (p. 24)
"The Shafi'i and Malik prohibit the killing of a freeman if he slays his slave or other men's slaves. This is because 'Ali Ibn Abi-Talib mentioned that a man had killed his slave and Muhammad scourged him only; he did not kill him. It was related on the authority of Muhammad that he said a Muslim should not be killed for a non-Muslim, nor a freeman for a slave; also because Abu Bakr and 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab did not kill a freeman for a slave. (This was said) in the presence of all Muhammad's companions, and no one disapproved or objected to it." The Commentary of al-Baydawi (p. 36)
"A man is not to be killed for his slave nor the freeman for a slave." "A believer is not to be killed for a non-believer, nor a man for his son, or a man for his slave or for a woman." Ahkam al-Qur'an (p. 275)
Need I go on ?
As to how slavery is justified: When the Saudi national Homaidan Al-Turki was imprisoned for holding a woman as a slave in Colorado, he complained that “the state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution.”
In other words, the point that complaining about forced slavery is racist against muslims is in fact on the legal record as a defense against getting convicted for practicing slavery in the US.
Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…
>>This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" This has nothing to do with Islam. This is all about money and a few rich idiots abusing their power. Bulk of the practices you associate with any religion, are not that of a religion but that of the local civilization at that point of time. Your post resembles the attitude of the western masses today, which is to hold the perception created b…
>>> People like these should think about their own morals before talking about somebody else's.
People like Winston Churchill can't think anything because they, like Winston Churchill, have been dead for decades. And in all civilized countries slavery has long been illegal. So if in one country - namely Qatar - institution of slavery still exists, Churchill quote from the thirties is not actually a good way to prevent somebody from talking about the morals of Qatar slaveholders.