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At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

theguardian.com

31–40 of 166 posts

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#31
post #11

See my post in the other thread about living in Qatar. The exit visa is a system that legally enables indentured servitude. Any country that has this system (pretty much just Islamic mideast countries) should be shunned by the US and the UN (won't happen of course given the US has a couple of bases in Qatar and BP has a huge investment there).

That would be https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6447108

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#32
post #28

Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview?

| Any free market advocates or Randians care to try and fit this terrible situation into their worldview? Except anarchists, I think "Randians" and most "free market advocates" are in favor of court (government) enforcement of contracts. > He was 16 There's a concept of "age of consent" or "capacity" to contract. > arranging a fake passport stating he was 20 Fraud. > wages retained Who would sign a contract like this…

Don't forget the most important underlying issue: a "free market advocate" should not want to contract with contract breakers (fraud, force) for the most obvious reason. Visible differences have historically been used as a Schelling fence on this issue. "Oh you can do business with me despite the fact that I use force and fraud, I only use it against people with dark skin."

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#33
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

>>This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia"

This has nothing to do with Islam. This is all about money and a few rich idiots abusing their power.

Bulk of the practices you associate with any religion, are not that of a religion but that of the local civilization at that point of time.

Your post resembles the attitude of the western masses today, which is to hold the perception created by media and politicians as a fact. Islam is followed by more than 1/3rd of the world today, no one wakes up with knives searching for slaves to kill. These people are ordinary people just like any other people in the west who go out and make a living, in the hopes of a good life for themselves and their family.

And they have their local culture which dominates bulk of their lifestyle.

Secondly you quote Winston Churchill, This is heights of hypocrisy. The man has made extreme racial remarks. For eg from : http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

>>I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

Basically he is saying, anything that what the so called self proclaimed 'stronger' or 'higher-grade' race does is right.

This is the exact same attitude these rich guys in Qatar show today. Something tells me they are both just the same. Regardless of the religion.

People like these should think about their own morals before talking about somebody else's.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#34
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is legalized slavery. These middle eastern countries are well known for that. That's why they are recruiting the poorest of the poor from rural areas in Asia. Foreign workers have 0 rights there. But hey these guys are US allies,the leader of democracy and the free world... they cant be bad , can they ...

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

> So I'm wondering what the attitude is on this. If you seriously defend this point, you're effectively against every religion except Western-brand atheism (ie. not the -much more successful- socialist version of atheism), and Christianity.

That's just ridiculous, and you know it. You're basically saying "every believer interprets his religion the way I say they do".

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#35
post #5
post #2

This story make me sad for the human species, it sounds criminal. On the upside, with tech of course: Is there any existing app for labor conditions reporting? If potential employees had a slight opportunity to easily research conditions, they might choose another company with a better record. This would have the potential to drive disreputable shops out of business and promote those that care a bit more about basic…

This is an environment where people borrow $1000 at 36% interest to get placed in a job overseas. In such an environment, I don't know there's a lot of practical room for, "Nah, I don't want that one; what else you got?!"

Predatory lending on top of indentured servitude: dual slavery of the body and poverty.

I'm sure there are much worse and much better companies than what is reported regarding un/semi-skilled labor workforce vendors. The former should not be allowed to survive.

Would be a cool project if someone went undercover themselves to make a docu on the living and work conditions of these industrial sites to expose this further.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

This is not part of Islam, since you don't find it going on in Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Islamic Africa, or the West where muslims live as well. This is instead confined to the Gulf states. I'm really very curious about where you're pulling all this stuff from.

> Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia

I dont think these countries are applying SHaria as a rule of Law. But please prove me wrong if this is the case.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the middle eastern countries. This is part of their legal system, which is called "islam", or "sharia" (translation: the right way for a muslim). Slavery (if you define it as forced labour without compensation), in case anyone doesn't know, is part of every religion. It is even part of Christianity, but Canon law specifies that it is a Christian's duty to, firstly, never own slaves themselves (with serious punish…

This is not part of Islam, since you don't find it going on in Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Islamic Africa, or the West where muslims live as well. This is instead confined to the Gulf states. I'm really very curious about where you're pulling all this stuff from.

I agree it's not part of Islam.

However, effective slavery of foreign workers does go on in those places, often with local or national government conspiracy. Malaysia is a prime example.

In the previous article, the family interviewed in Nepal lost one son to construction slavery in Qatar and one to the same in Malaysia.

Furthermore, Sharia law has been waved around in the western media as the height of evil (like the word Islam or the neologism Islamist), but like most religious ideologies Islamic law does historically have many good intentions behind it and there are many strong examples of excellent, safe, learned and tolerant societies that drew from this tradition (some periods of Iran I guess, definitely Yuan China after the Mongols who were great integrators and sponsors of language, philosophy and the culinary arts (包子原来是土耳其的!), Islamic Spain, etc.). Officially, Qatar 'abolished' Sharia courts in 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar#Law

My theory for the correlation of shitty law and many Islamic countries is simply that education is lacking, or some unelected self-serving bigot or a cartel thereof are in effective control, extracting all the wealth for themselves. In modern times, in many of these cases the ruling parties' route to power can be clearly traced to have sprung from the west's actions at the end of colonialism, or even later. Usually England or France in those times, but later in the 20th century blame seems to shift primarily the US with its one-eyed diplomatic stance and obsession with oil money and global economic/military dominance, with economic hitmen, the undermining of the UN, numerous examples of sponsoring evil regimes or undermining democratically elected ones, so and so forth.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#38
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corruption by the middle-men, the worst part is fellow Indians/Nepalis run such recruitment rackets and fake certificates and stuff. Even if those countries wanted to do better, these middle-men would gobble up the benefits and pass the hardwork to uneducated/naive migrant workers.

> uneducated/naive migrant workers I suspect that, due to the internet, prospective migrant works are a good deal less naive than they used to be. Which makes me wonder if Nepalese will still be prepared to work there in future.

They are well aware of working conditions. I'm sure some migrant workers might be returning to Nepal and this type of information spreads quickly within rural communities. And Nepalese people will still work for them. Poverty makes people do all sorts of things. And that includes taking risks with your own life.

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#39
On a side note, is there anyway we can donate money to his family. ~ $1500 with 36% interest is lot of money for his poor Nepalese family and I doubt they will be able to repay that debt. I guess they will have to work rest of their life just to repay money.

I'd be up for donating some money to their family. How do I do it?

Re: At 16, Ganesh got a job in Qatar. Two months later he was dead

#40
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not paint all countries in the Middle East with the same brush.

I've only been to a few countries in the Middle East, so I can't generalise. But one thing common among these countries is the lack of warmth, sincerity and humility among the locals. It is one of the most unpleasant and hostile cultures that I have encountered in my years of travel. They treat blue-collar foreigners as lesser humans. EDIT: To clarify, I've only been to Qatar, UAE and Bahrain.

Here's a blog post (from someone I trust) which seems to contradict you:

http://www.wanderingearl.com/welcome-to-syria-my-friend/

"I am simply unable to recall any other country that I’ve visited where I’ve been so instantly and warmly welcomed and I still cannot believe how many people have approached me in the streets just to literally say the words “Welcome to Syria my friend!”"

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