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The shittiest project I ever worked on

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Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#151

Post by kbenson »

jerf wrote: post #144
floobynewb wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is wrong. Take for instance the task of classifying images. You can train a RBN with backprop (after contrastive divergence alg) to correctly classify images. In the process it has automagically determined properties of the image which allow it to perform the classification. These properties are combinations of pixel elements. So it has in effect determined how to solve a problem without your input. In a…

"In the process it has automagically determined properties of the image which allow it to perform the classification." (Emphasis mine.) But that's the point; it may be "auto", but if you understand how NNs work it's not magic . It's not even all that hard to understand (considered broadly), and once you understand how they work it is, for instance, easy to construct cases they fall flat on.... "So it has in effect de…

It's classic emergent behavior. While you may understand how the algorithm works, and even be able to step through and see how each neuron affects the whole, that doesn't mean you know why the answer is correctly achieved through all of them combined.

The classic example is facial recognition. Training a neural network for facial recognition will result in lots of neurons contributing a very small part of the whole, and only when all (or most) are involved is the answer correct.

To most people, this (emergent behavior) is "magic".

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#152

Post by hackula1 »

misterjangles wrote: post #52
nostrademons wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're billing time & materials (which might be a good idea for a contract of indefinite scope), you'd still get paid for the time spent doing due diligence. You might even be able to sell a time & materials contract on the basis that it gives you an incentive to point out simpler solutions that require less maintenance even if they involve using competing off-the-shelf products.

Exactly. Good clients will understand "hey, this guy just saved us $150k". Bad clients will think "I just paid a programmer to do nothing!" Learning to recognize and get rid of those bad clients (or convert them into good clients) is a skill that can take a while to learn.

Along the lines of: "I paid my attorney $10k and I didn't even get to court!"

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#153

Post by hackula1 »

adamconroy wrote: post #50
fusiongyro wrote: post #22

> In 1995 I quit my regular job as senior web engineer You had the job title "senior web engineer" when the web was 4 years old. That's pretty cool.

Sorry if it reduces self-esteem, but we (software developers) are not engineers. I've been brainwashed for many years by my brother, who is a Phd civil engineer, that professions that hijack the term engineer are kidding themselves. I know it sounds cool, and my current title is 'Senior Software Engineer', but it is all a scam.

I use the title that will make me look the best for the roles I am after. I currently have the title of Software Architect, which is probably about as pompous a title as it gets. To my clients, however, it conveys that I focus on large interconnected systems where the need is less about code and more about system design, and that equals more $ and more projects that fit my skill set. I could care less what a certified architect actually does. Nobody is asking me to design their house, and titles in the software industry are not yet standardized. It is not a "scam" to optimize your title for fit and profit (provided it is legal and is not completely misrepresenting what you do).

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#154

Post by hackula1 »

briancpotter wrote: post #150
AndyKelley wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced. Care to make a case?

The degree of responsibility is vastly different. Engineers are licensed, and can (and often are) sued for professional negligence. Failing to do your job adequately means you'll be stripped of your license and prevented from practicing engineering.

No, only certain fields of engineering are licensed and regulated. Those include Structural, Chemical, Mechanical, etc.

Others are less rigorous, but can still are the practice of engineering. Software Development is one of those.

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#155

Post by hackula1 »

josephagoss wrote: post #48
paulhauggis wrote: post #40

The shittiest project I ever worked on was a php project that was converted from another language (I don't remember which one). This doesn't sound bad, except they used software to automatically convert it. The PHP code had no comments, minimal white space, and the variables were all hex. My job was to fix bugs. I worked there for about a week before I quit in frustration.

How can someone suggest auto convert into another language like that? In the long run it would be cheaper rebuilding the entire thing.

I have done it for a few files here and there without too much hassle. An entire project sounds like a nightmare though. Also, which language you are converting from/to will have a big impact. VB.Net>C#; no big deal. FoxPro>Erlang; ouch.

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#156

Post by hackula1 »

yitchelle wrote: post #92

Great http://thedailywtf.com/ material.

In that case... TRWTF is that he did not charge them an arm and a leg for all of those planning meetings. If you charge appropriately, only necessary changes get made, and only needed software gets built (most of the time, but you stay paid and happy either way).

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#157

Post by hackula1 »

eterm wrote: post #118
donquichotte wrote: post #75

I am working on quite a tedious project right now. It involves 10 years old, quite extensive, Visual Basic 6 programs. No source control was used. In our company it is practice to hire interns for 3-month periods to work on production software. A mix of programming styles can be found in this project. Some functions return 0 when they fail. Others return 1. Or -1. Or False. Or "False". I love it!

Count yourself lucky there was any error handling at all! My current job involves a lot of old (and new) visual basic 6 and there are parts of our software which don't work once you remove the magic line: On Error Resume Next

I cracked open some code the other day to find it riddled with:

    on e goto end

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#158

Post by grecy »

adamconroy wrote: post #50
fusiongyro wrote: post #22

> In 1995 I quit my regular job as senior web engineer You had the job title "senior web engineer" when the web was 4 years old. That's pretty cool.

Sorry if it reduces self-esteem, but we (software developers) are not engineers. I've been brainwashed for many years by my brother, who is a Phd civil engineer, that professions that hijack the term engineer are kidding themselves. I know it sounds cool, and my current title is 'Senior Software Engineer', but it is all a scam.

In Australia, my five year Bachelor of Software Engineering with First Class Honors was the first Software Engineering degree to be accredited by the Australian Institute of Engineers, of which I am a member.

So, yes, I am an Engineer.

Re: The shittiest project I ever worked on

#159

Post by [deleted] »

rexreed wrote: post #94
shailesh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of agree with you and OP, so let me add to the discussion with the caveat that YMMV etc. Some of these points may overlap with comments by fellow HNers in these threads. In any organization as a prospective customer, there are three forces at work that matter to a consultant: users, decision makers and finance folks. Ideally, the decision makers appoint a dedicated person (or team) who mediates users and finance…

Awesome list - deserves a nice little blog post of its own that I can bookmark.

[deleted]
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