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Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

arstechnica.com

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Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#221

Post by MBCook »

camus wrote: post #204
MBCook wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Start by removing the artificial restriction on desktop apps. I would say the desktop is the biggest problem with Surface RT. It's clear they wanted an iPad, but ended up tacking on the desktop because Windows 8 couldn't operate in Metro-only mode (some settings, etc not available) and Office wasn't ready. Fix that. Drop the desktop so there is no more confusion on the RT. You want the desktop? You want the pro. Yo…

They should kill Metro/Modern UI on desktop ,it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done.

> it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done.

Microsoft Bob? Active Mates Barney? It's a big change, but it's nowhere near the worst thing they've ever done.

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#222

Post by wvenable »

MBCook wrote: post #219
wvenable wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fix that. Drop the desktop so there is no more confusion on the RT. I don't understand this line of reasoning. This is a finished product, everything is right there and done. Why should it be crippled to be more like the iPad? The one thing the market doesn't need is another iPad clone. For once Microsoft changing little is their chance to be different! If they can make Metro so awesome that nobody bothers to load…

> Removing the desktop to force the hand is a bad as crippling the desktop is now. Having the desktop there when you need it could be major selling feature! If the desktop is crippled, there is no reason to keep it. Keeping it around lets Microsoft continue to use it as a crutch. "Well it's OK you can't do that, in Metro, just go to the desktop." I don't think this would make another iPad clone, it still has a lot to…

> If the desktop is crippled, there is no reason to keep it.

I agree, that's why I said it should be un-crippled.

> I don't think this would make another iPad clone, it still has a lot to offer.

Really? It's a locked down API with apps sold exclusively from the company app store. The biggest selling app is probably Angry Birds! From a software perspective, it's almost distinguishable from the iPad except that the quantity of software is much smaller. That is not a recipe for success.

> That's one of the reasons the iPad is so popular, it's easy to use and manage. That's not a bad feature to copy.

It's a trade-off. The iPad is a very simple device and is very limited; it's difficult to impossible to make a file in one application and view it another! Microsoft can certainly try to out-simplify Apple but in the process they'll be leaving a large part of the market untapped.

> This is the thing I found the oddest about Surface RT. In order to avoid canabalizing laptop/Surface Pro sales, they prevent the RT from joining a domain.

It was a good plan, they made the RT so unappealing that nobody bought it at all! Microsoft should be trying to make the best possible product they can using all avenues they have available to them. Desktop, Metro, everything. Instead they're playing stupid games like this and the market is slapping them down for it.

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#223

Post by rwallace »

koenigdavidmj wrote: post #70
jfoutz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple actually just made each executable have the binaries for both platforms. It's a good trick.

Even if you do that, you still can't run your desktop apps on the ARM model. I really don't want to explain to luddite relatives why they can't run a game unless they buy the more expensive model. Either ban desktop apps on both models, or neither.

While I agree with your overall sentiment, in fairness it's not hard to explain.

"Well the cheap one is shite, it doesn't really work. The expensive one does work so you want to buy that if you're going to buy one at all."

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#224

Post by wluu »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #116
JonFish85 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

128GB minus whatever OS overhead there is... I know it's a nitpick, but definitely something to keep in mind.

It's relatively significant for a nitpick, "The 128 GB version has approximately 85 GB free hard disk space." per http://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-gb/support/storage-files... That's probably a combination of OS and the doublespeak/marketing definition of gigabyte though.

You can also utilise the microSD slot (which sits behind the kickstand[1]). A few of my coworkers who have the Surface Pro brought a 64gb microSD card and store media (music/videos/photos) on the microSD. The speed of the card isn't too bad when used for that purpose.

So in this sense, while you may lose space for the OS, at least you can still expand it with a microSD card.

[1] - http://tablets.wonderhowto.com/how-to/add-extra-storage-spac...

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#225

Post by alyx »

bhauer wrote: post #14

As a Surface Pro owner [1], I like: * Surface 2 loses the low-density screen. I enjoy that low-density has been deprecated. * The names are right. Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2. No "Surface with Windows RT 8.1" nonsense. * Haswell, yes please. Longer battery life may assuage some popular criticism. * Backlit type cover. I hope this is compatible with my Surface Pro. * Two-position kick stand. I will be envious of this.…

For those interested, the event stream can be viewed here:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/presskits/surface/surfac...

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#226

Post by shadowmint »

MBCook wrote: post #221
camus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should kill Metro/Modern UI on desktop ,it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done.

> it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done. Microsoft Bob? Active Mates Barney? It's a big change, but it's nowhere near the worst thing they've ever done.

I don't know, taking a familiar UI, and replacing it with something that the majority of your users hate and don't use* all of a sudden seems pretty high up on stupid things to have done.

That old risk matrix stuff~ You know; risk of something going wrong vs. cost of failure if it does.

Let's see, risk: we're screwed. Probability people will hate it... I dunno, pretty low. Seems like a great strategy! Let's go for it!

By comparison buying Nokia was smart move on the same scale; risk: we're screwed! Probability that nokia will get cold feet and abandon windows phone / go bankrupt; looking not that unlikely.

It's easy to judge things as stupid in hindsight, but to class them as truly 'world class stupid', you really have to imagine what sort of things they were thinking about at the time the decisions were made.

Metro (* see https://www.soluto.com/reports; people argue over what the data means, but the raw numbers are pretty compelling)

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#227

Post by ygra »

ciniglio wrote: post #152
manojlds wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which can not run each others' software? Windows Store apps run on both of them.

I don't believe this is true. Most windows store apps run on both of them, but I think there are some, e.g. graphics, API's that your app could access that would limit it to x86 only

Not that I know of. It's just that if you're going native code instead of JS or .NET you have to make sure yourself that you run on ARM. And apparently C++ is the only option that gets access to DirectX which may mean that 3D apps never get ported to ARM.

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#228

Post by ygra »

Livven wrote: post #172
mietek wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a usable handwriting recognizer which can deal with heavy math notation?

Windows comes with a dedicated math handwriting input panel. Totally random, all because of their long (failed) push for Tablet PCs. I'm not sure how well it works though.

It needs a lot of massaging, at least for my handwriting. But it's been a while that I tried it with an actual pen. The main problem is that it recognizes strokes, so if you go back and close a gap in a symbol to make it appear right the recognizer will think you changed o to σ or something like that.

Back in uni I was able to take math notes quite well by typing in Word. The math notation there is similar enough to LaTeX (including most macros for symbols) but types much faster. But that's not handwriting, admittedly.

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#229

Post by CamperBob2 »

MBCook wrote: post #221
camus wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should kill Metro/Modern UI on desktop ,it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done.

> it's the stupidest thing Microsoft has ever done. Microsoft Bob? Active Mates Barney? It's a big change, but it's nowhere near the worst thing they've ever done.

Every company makes bad decisions on occasion. Refusing to hit the undo button on their bad decisions is the real killer for Microsoft. Microsoft Bob was an optional component from day one. It was never shoved down their customers' throats on the grounds that it was strategically important to the company, as Metro has been.

I wouldn't be surprised if Metro is gone within the first two or three calendar quarters of the new CEO's tenure.

Re: Microsoft’s Hardware, Round 2: Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2

#230

Post by crucifiction »

nivla wrote: post #125
eliben wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can get a much more powerful laptop for much less, if you need a "real PC". If you need a tablet, you can get one for far less too. Heck, you can get a great laptop + a great tablet for less! This is a delusional move from a company that's so far behind in this area that it's no longer funny.

That is not a good comparison. That is like asking someone, why do they need a smart phone when they can get a regular phone + a netbook for half the price. Believe it or not there is a niche market for Tablet+PC forms. It was one of the main reason and the best decision I made when purchasing the Surface Pro. For travelling, I no longer need to carry my Laptop + Tablet. I just take the Surface Pro (It is setup to us…

Microsoft and their partners have been trying to sell to that niche PC-Tablet market since before the iPad was a thing. That market has been proven by multiple players to not exist, or at least not be big enough to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in capturing. Maybe they think its different now due to the iPad, but the market seems to indicate that it is not. People see the iPad as a big phone, not a small computer.
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