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SteamOS

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Re: SteamOS

#431

Post by Xixi »

criley2 wrote: post #373
jsnell wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is some teasing along those lines there: > Watch for announcements in the coming weeks about all the AAA titles coming natively to SteamOS in 2014. But more importantly, control of Steam gives Valve a lot of leverage in this. It's easy to see the reasons for Linux support in indie games. But harder to see why mid-tier developers like Paradox or Eugen started to port their latest games to Linux. It's a goo…

Remember: The PS4 and Xbox1 both are literally built on top of DirectX11, meaning that games for next-gen consoles (read: AAA) will be DirectX by DEFAULT but will certainly not be OpenGL by default. And OpenGL is a requirement for Linux support of these games. How Valve is strong arming manufacturers into writing the graphics code for their games in BOTH frameworks is beyond me. I'm not sure the major engines out the…

As other have pointed out, you are obviously wrong about Microsoft Direct X being available on Sony's Playstation 4.

But you are also wrong in the larger picture. Direct3D and OpenGL are first and foremost abstraction layers to access the GPU. Since in a console the hardware is immutable, you can gain a lot of performance by skipping (or trimming the fat of) these abstractions.

The XBox 360 version of DirectX is very different from the PC version: it's much much closer to the metal and exposes pretty much all the GPU functionalities.

Here is a thread talking about XBox 360 dev: http://beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=62049

There's no reason to think that it will be any different for the XBox One. Hardware-wise it's a very average PC: its sole advantage versus an actual PC is this ability to get that much closer to the metal.

Re: SteamOS

#432

Post by moneyrich4 »

rkalla wrote: post #26

This is effectively the software-only equivalent of a console launch. Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform? Valve certainly has a better chance than most at pulling this off (and likely enough user/market data to make this seem like a valid investment) I am still super skeptical that these publishers are going to spend the time portin…

> Is anyone else skeptical that they can motivate publishers to spend time/money porting their games to the Linux platform?

no.

porting and refactoring tools are so good now you can even port a direct3d app to opengl in 2 days or less, you could use a d3d>opengl wrapper in a day of work.

libraries are also so good at dual platform it requires minimal changes (usually just a new build system).. afaik the biggest change is handling input (theres no directInput on linux - most games use directInput for mouse/kb).

theres also numerous benefits to a closed system economy like an app store - for example even if nobody uses it you are practically exclusive and will get more buys than other places you can sell your app.

Re: SteamOS

#433

Post by slacka »

gtaylor wrote: post #421
lbenes wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve has the resources; it's more a issue of internal commitment, which I agree they don't seem willing to make. To make SteamOS a serious contender to NXE Dashboard or CellOS they'd need to: * Develop a XrossMediaBar like UI * Devote resources to Wayland or Mir to reach production quality * Create a new audio subsystem, or bring OSS v4 up to date for Linux If I heard something like Valve dedicating 5 programmers on…

They don't really need Wayland right now, and OSS isn't required for gaming on Linux. I've been pretty happy with xorg + pulseaudio + alsa and their Steam for Linux client. I've been surprised at the quality this early in the game. I'm still a bit amazed that they've released a Steam for Linux client that works as well as it does, and that they are iterating and improving it so quickly. They've done everything right…

According to an X11 dev, Daniel Stone, Wayland reduces the latency and eliminates tearing issues associated with X11.[1] This is exactly the kind of upgrade to Linux that will make SteamBox a viable alternative to PS4.

As far as audio goes, PulseAudio is fine for playing music, but a real PITA for many hardcore gamers[2][3] including myself. I found latency was terrible with Wine + PA and later saw the developers had an issue with PA too.[4]

I've been playing native and Wine game on Linux with for about 6 years now and by far the best experience I had was with OSS4 and my old SB Live. When I eventually "upgraded" to ALSA, I immediately noticed some latency in games like OpenArena.

I'd think that maybe this issue was just me, accept Steam said in their announcement, they were "targeting audio performance". If they do put some resources to clean up the linux audio subsystem, it will be a win for us all.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

[2] http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/linux-and-open-source/pulse...

[3] http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=960195

[4] http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTEyODM

Re: SteamOS

#434

Post by nemo1618 »

josh2600 wrote: post #362
msy wrote: post #110

Add in Netflix (or a competitor) integration and you've got the potential to put all 3 major consoles on the ropes in a few years. Given Halflife 2 launched steam my bet is HL3 will be used to launch this.

Please... No more HL3 fake launch announcements. Please. If HL3 comes out as a SteamOS exclusive; well that would be quite the coup.

Kind of crazy to think that Valve has the power to make 2014 the fabled "Year of the Linux Desktop" simply by making HL3 a Linux exclusive.

Re: SteamOS

#436

Post by marcosdumay »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #306
Mikeb85 wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia's Linux drivers are at feature parity with their Windows drivers. And perform at least as well...

Meaning they randomly lock up the system about once every three days?

I don't have any instability problems, with neither AMD or NVidia (I have a computer with each).

What kills those drivers is ongoing support. Since they aren't at the mainline kernel, they lose sync, and upgrading the kernels turns into a lottery where sometimes I have to uninstall the newest one, not a big deal, but anoying.

Re: SteamOS

#437

Post by davidhollander »

wonderzombie wrote: post #396
davidhollander wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your definitions for "traditional Linux userspace software" and "traditional Linux users"? Do you consider Android to be "Linux"?

"Traditional Linux userspace software" is an informal definition, but let's say something like X. Or your average window manager. Or, say, almost anything from GNOME. "Traditional Linux users" is another informal definition, but if you use a distro, you're probably a traditional Linux user. Contrast this with an Android user. They run the Linux kernel but the software they interface with is an entirely different bree…

> but let's say something like X. Or your average window manager. Or, say, almost anything from GNOME.

This doesn't apply to embedded Linux, or Linux for servers, which could be argued to be just as "traditional" a use case as Linux for desktops.

Additionally, for the desktop use case, nearly every distribution uses a different window manager anyway. There are such a wide variety of window managers, I wouldn't know how to compute an "average" between them in a meaningful way. Although I use Linux for a desktop everyday, I don't have GNOME installed, and I would barely notice if X was missing and replaced by Wayland or a different component.

> I think it's misleading to read "Linux" and imagine "desktop GNU/Linux with all the trimmings."

Right. It's not Linux for the desktop, or Linux for the phone, or Linux for embedded devices, or Linux for servers, it's Linux for the living room. My point is that due to the diversity of the Linux ecosystem, there really wasn't such a thing as a "traditional" or "average" Linux Desktop in the first place, and that we can't even say Linux for desktop is the "traditional" or "average" use of Linux. Anything running the Linux kernel should be able to call itself Linux, without qualification.

Re: SteamOS

#438

Post by marcosdumay »

Avitas wrote: post #312
aroman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but it's virtually the same core software stack as on the desktop. So the linux distros get a huge leg up in that arena.

Your last thought is the big point here. It may be part of more of a horizontal strategy that is initially touted as a niche move. When we actually see it, it may be either a desktop-less distro, have Unity/GNOME or some other desktop permutation. My best estimate of what best fits a maximum impact strategy is an OS with a desktop environment pre-installed (even if hidden from casual view) or easily installable. I ha…

My bet is a Debian derivative, running X, with no complete desktop environment, but with all the GTK libs required.

Maybe with added Wine.

Re: SteamOS

#440

Post by skizm »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #42
skizm wrote: post #34

Can I still browse the internet?

Yes. Steam's Big Picture mode has its own web browser, as does Steam itself.

Sweet. I wonder how it will compare to XBMC. I'm looking to buy/build a media center PC within the month and been checking out operating systems for it. This is now a contender.
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