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How to teach your girlfriend programming

blog.jakubarnold.cz

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Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#21

Post by novalis »

johnplaxton wrote: post #19
novalis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read the article, I think it would be good for you to quote something out of it that is blatantly sexist. So that your comment doesn't equal a mixed insult to the writer based on a general feeling you had at times.

Why is it "teach your girlfriend"? Why does he presume that his audience has a girlfriend who needs to be taught, rather than a boyfriend? You can't say "well he has a girlfriend so he wrote it like that" because he's not talking about him in the title, he's talking about you - he's presuming you have a girlfriend who needs to be taught, and that's sexist. I don't think it's the crime of the century, but I do think l…

Mostly because some other person who happens to be a man and is in a relation with a person that happens to be a woman may feel like teaching her some basic programming and a title that ports this situation to a possible reader elicits a stronger connection. That and "How a humam should teach another human partner how to program" would be very daft. I don't see anywhere in there, where it is stated that a girlfriend needs to be taught. Would it be ok if it was "teach your boyfriend" ? Where are you going with this ? You think that title is sexist because he says he has a girfriend that he will be teaching ?

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#22

Post by NonEUCitizen »

xerophtye wrote: post #3

Hahahah! You're one lucky guy! I have always known teaching someone programming is pretty simple (I managed to teach simple C++ to my 9-yr-old sister and also to my 74-yr-old Granny). But it was easier to teach them because my sister was too young to have the "I'll never understand that" barrier and my granny just loved the attention i was giving her so she put all her effort into learning what i was teaching her. So…

Why not discuss medical stuff with your girlfriend? If you don't know enough about medicine to hold a discussion with her, you can ask her to teach you.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#23

Post by Wintamute »

johnplaxton wrote: post #18
Wintamute wrote: post #12

To those saying this post is partly sexist, I think it says more about the prism through which you choose to view the world than anything about the author. This is just a guy and girl that have found themselves in a relationship where one is interested to learn the skills of the other. He's happy and excited to teach her, which is totally understandable. I see no evidence to suggest he feels like he's paternalistical…

Then why does he say "teach your girlfriend" rather than teach your partner, or teach your friend, or teach someone? If the fact that it is his girlfriend is just his situation, why suggest that I teach my girlfriend in the title?

I make no claims that the post is a good one, or that its title is particularly apt. In fact I think its a bit vacuous, a better title could have been "I'm young and in love and I'm amazed to have found someone I can share my geekiness with and I want to tell everyone about it". Unless you know the guy personally there's not much point to reading it, but I'd say there's also not much justification for inferring sexism.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#24

Post by johnplaxton »

novalis wrote: post #21
johnplaxton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it "teach your girlfriend"? Why does he presume that his audience has a girlfriend who needs to be taught, rather than a boyfriend? You can't say "well he has a girlfriend so he wrote it like that" because he's not talking about him in the title, he's talking about you - he's presuming you have a girlfriend who needs to be taught, and that's sexist. I don't think it's the crime of the century, but I do think l…

Mostly because some other person who happens to be a man and is in a relation with a person that happens to be a woman may feel like teaching her some basic programming and a title that ports this situation to a possible reader elicits a stronger connection. That and "How a humam should teach another human partner how to program" would be very daft. I don't see anywhere in there, where it is stated that a girlfriend…

It wouldn't be sexist if he wrote "how I taught my girlfriend to program".

Imagine if it said "how to teach your black friend to program". Why only black friends? Why only girlfriends?

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#25

Post by novalis »

novalis wrote: post #21
johnplaxton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it "teach your girlfriend"? Why does he presume that his audience has a girlfriend who needs to be taught, rather than a boyfriend? You can't say "well he has a girlfriend so he wrote it like that" because he's not talking about him in the title, he's talking about you - he's presuming you have a girlfriend who needs to be taught, and that's sexist. I don't think it's the crime of the century, but I do think l…

Mostly because some other person who happens to be a man and is in a relation with a person that happens to be a woman may feel like teaching her some basic programming and a title that ports this situation to a possible reader elicits a stronger connection. That and "How a humam should teach another human partner how to program" would be very daft. I don't see anywhere in there, where it is stated that a girlfriend…

Added in response to : 'It wouldn't be sexist if he wrote "how I taught my girlfriend to program". Imagine if it said "how to teach your black friend to program". Why only black friends?Why only girlfriends?' ----- Sorry, trying to mix race in this just to raise issues is simply not going to fly with me. He has a girlfriend and wants the world to know they both are geeks that want to do something together. There is no plural in that title unlike the way you distorted it, it is a common way to use the infinitive, what is your problem with that, can't you just read it for what it is. Don't you see there simply isn't traction for a sexist cavalcade on some guy that is over the moon because he found someone that will put up with his 'teaching'. How can you miss something so simple to the point you are trying to project discrimination on some couple doing something together.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#26

Post by chlostick »

reginaldjcooper wrote: post #14
jacalata wrote: post #6

This is kind of like the ways I have helped my boyfriend learn programming except for how it is hopelessly mired in the idea that programmers are guys who have cutely technologically impaired girlfriends.

Where exactly is that idea expressed? EDIT: Fine, if you read into the preface where he talks about his programmer friends I guess they are all male. That's hardly hopelessly mired, it's more like an unfortunate choice of description. I bet the author would assume women programmers feel the exact same way about their partners as well.

It's heavily implied in the language of the article. Chances are you're right, and if we asked the author of the article, he might say that: yeah, it works both ways, and this is just his experience.

The problem is that this is an instructional article, and his language excludes the idea of female programmers completely. It doesn't mean he's a horrible person because of it. It's just that this kind of language is still the norm, and it would be great if we could be recognised as equals, and not for us to be expected to assume it in the face of exclusion.

Language is important, because it affects how we perceive one another. So jacalata's comment serves as a polite critisism. Women are people too, and you all know that, but sometimes some folks need to be reminded to reflect that in their language.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#27

Post by novalis »

chlostick wrote: post #26
reginaldjcooper wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where exactly is that idea expressed? EDIT: Fine, if you read into the preface where he talks about his programmer friends I guess they are all male. That's hardly hopelessly mired, it's more like an unfortunate choice of description. I bet the author would assume women programmers feel the exact same way about their partners as well.

It's heavily implied in the language of the article. Chances are you're right, and if we asked the author of the article, he might say that: yeah, it works both ways, and this is just his experience. The problem is that this is an instructional article, and his language excludes the idea of female programmers completely. It doesn't mean he's a horrible person because of it. It's just that this kind of language is sti…

So you state that from your POV his language reflected that women are not people too ??? That is really great, that you had to make a throw away account to put that out there, it reflects a lot about you trying to raise issue with something you create a strawman for on the first line of your comment. "If we asked the author..." and than you present an imaginary author giving an 'apology'. That is abysmally poor and you had to protect your regular account because of it.

In no way does he ever objectify his girlfriend and you just project to no end. Where does he exclude "the idea of female programmers completely". Maybe in the same way that he excludes the idea of "dead rhinos", because it isn't the point. The point his, he is excited about his girlfriend wanting him to teach her about programming and wrote about it. Go rain on someone elses parade.

To your other point, there is nothing polite about insulting others with sexist labels. The 'polite criticism reminds people woman are people too' tirade... ending with the "and you all know that"/"some folks", is just priceless and telling passive aggressive form after preaching against the bad male sexist programmer that should watch his language.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#28

Post by fallinghawks »

johnplaxton wrote: post #19
novalis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read the article, I think it would be good for you to quote something out of it that is blatantly sexist. So that your comment doesn't equal a mixed insult to the writer based on a general feeling you had at times.

Why is it "teach your girlfriend"? Why does he presume that his audience has a girlfriend who needs to be taught, rather than a boyfriend? You can't say "well he has a girlfriend so he wrote it like that" because he's not talking about him in the title, he's talking about you - he's presuming you have a girlfriend who needs to be taught, and that's sexist. I don't think it's the crime of the century, but I do think l…

Let's not let facts get in the way of political correctness, shall we? /sarcasm

Audience = programmers. Programmers = at least 90% male. I don't know what proportion have girlfriends, but we can always hope the number is pretty good.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#29

Post by jacalata »

novalis wrote: post #20
johnplaxton wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why does he say "teach your girlfriend" rather than teach your partner, or teach your friend, or teach someone? If the fact that it is his girlfriend is just his situation, why suggest that I teach my girlfriend in the title?

Is that a throw away account ? But anyways, because some other person who happens to be a man and is in a relation with a person that happens to be a woman may feel like teaching her some basic programming and a title that ports this situation to a possible reader elicits a stronger connection. That and "How a humam should teach another human partner how to program" would be very daft.

On twitter, he says that he thinks gender neutral language is boring. You seem to have the same opinion. I'm sorry that including me as part of a potential audience is boring to you, and yes I find that sexist.

Re: How to teach your girlfriend programming

#30

Post by peter-fogg »

fallinghawks wrote: post #28
johnplaxton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it "teach your girlfriend"? Why does he presume that his audience has a girlfriend who needs to be taught, rather than a boyfriend? You can't say "well he has a girlfriend so he wrote it like that" because he's not talking about him in the title, he's talking about you - he's presuming you have a girlfriend who needs to be taught, and that's sexist. I don't think it's the crime of the century, but I do think l…

Let's not let facts get in the way of political correctness, shall we? /sarcasm Audience = programmers. Programmers = at least 90% male. I don't know what proportion have girlfriends, but we can always hope the number is pretty good.

That 90% can have boyfriends, too, you know.
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