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CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

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Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#191

Post by [deleted] »

ryall wrote: post #180
jacques_chester wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, no one has mentioned the concept of scaling, which is core to crossfit. Good point. I too remember the shock and amazement that washed over the entire training universe when Crossfit invented progressive resistance and skill progressions. The only thing I can remember that was more impressive was that time Greg Glassman invented gravity. That was incredible.

That's an impressive level of sarcasm, but I don't think he's saying that scaling is exclusive to crossfit, just that it's actively encouraged.

[deleted]

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#192

Post by dalke »

mightybyte wrote: post #150
dalke wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? After nearly 6 years on Hacker News? I should get an award! (Though I suspect you are exaggerating, so there will be no prize for me tonight.) Since you don't like it, take out all references to it. I said "I agree that people are responsible for their own well-being in training [but] they are also partially responsible for the well-being of others." Surely that's a stand-alone statement. The rest of my post…

I don't deny that culpability exists. I think that normal CrossFit gyms won't come close to meeting the criteria for culpability. I've been to several gyms and I've never seen anything even close.

The statement you objected to was "the competitive culture pressures you into continuing." You vociferously denied the concept - "Hogwash!" - and denied any sense of culpability ("you have no one to blame but yourself").

Now you say that there may be culpability, but that "it won't come close in normal gyms".

Thank you for changing your mind!

In any case, the evidence presented is that involuntary urination, throwing up, and rhabdomyolysis are three example of things which occur at a higher rate at CrossFit gyms than others.

These are not healthy things for the body, and are to be avoided, yes? If the competitive culture pressure is not an influence for the increased rate, then what is? Poor training practices?

Or is the presented data incorrect?

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#193

Post by mathattack »

kyllo wrote: post #148
enraged_camel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's scary. Thanks for sharing. I'm an amateur bodybuilder and I workout alone. Over the years I have contemplated joining Crossfit (mostly for the comradery aspect), but the insane level of cult mentality has made me shy away from it every time. Articles like this just drive home the point. My friend Jane, who is a physical therapist, specializes in exercise injuries. She once confided in me that local Crossfitter…

Yeah I know a few people who have tried Crossfit and the had to quit because they got hurt within the first month. SLAP tears from excessive kipping pull-ups is another common crossfitter injury. I think they do a lot of exercises that are very dangerous to the shoulder / rotator cuff in general. Back injuries are pretty common too, since proper spinal posture is one of the first things to go out the window when you…

I hear horror stories of injuries too. In the end it's self defeating if you are injured all the time or so exhausted that the overtraining hurts the rest of your life.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#194

Post by mathattack »

scott_s wrote: post #92
enraged_camel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's scary. Thanks for sharing. I'm an amateur bodybuilder and I workout alone. Over the years I have contemplated joining Crossfit (mostly for the comradery aspect), but the insane level of cult mentality has made me shy away from it every time. Articles like this just drive home the point. My friend Jane, who is a physical therapist, specializes in exercise injuries. She once confided in me that local Crossfitter…

I don't do Crossfit, but I think it's a good system in general. I do powerlifting style strength training and Brazilian jiu-jitsu. The attitude you're talking about - patch me up so I can get back to training, until my next injury - is common to all sports and physical activities. Now, it's possible injuries are more common in Crossfit than in other sports, but that's a question for the data.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu also has a combat aspect. Injuries are expected. Strange to expect so many injuries from a pure fitness activity.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#195

Post by foobar »

Whitespace wrote: post #20

TL;DR: I got rhabdo from crossfit last year. My CPK was 100,000 and I spent 5 days in the hospital. I wasn't overweight but I wasn't fit when I got it, and I got it during the first day of a beginner course. Ask me anything. ============================== I did crossfit for a couple of months in 2010 and loved it, but I had to stop since I moved to a new apartment and the gym times wouldn't work with the longer commu…

> I looked online for a hospital that my insurance covered, took a cab, checked myself in

Reading this feels so bizarre to me, as a European... I really don't get the American attitude towards health-care.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#196

Post by huhtenberg »

foobar wrote: post #195
Whitespace wrote: post #20

TL;DR: I got rhabdo from crossfit last year. My CPK was 100,000 and I spent 5 days in the hospital. I wasn't overweight but I wasn't fit when I got it, and I got it during the first day of a beginner course. Ask me anything. ============================== I did crossfit for a couple of months in 2010 and loved it, but I had to stop since I moved to a new apartment and the gym times wouldn't work with the longer commu…

> I looked online for a hospital that my insurance covered, took a cab, checked myself in Reading this feels so bizarre to me, as a European... I really don't get the American attitude towards health-care.

This is a normal practice in several European countries as well, so it really depends on in which "Europe" you live.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#197

Post by mightybyte »

dalke wrote: post #192
mightybyte wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't deny that culpability exists. I think that normal CrossFit gyms won't come close to meeting the criteria for culpability. I've been to several gyms and I've never seen anything even close.

The statement you objected to was "the competitive culture pressures you into continuing." You vociferously denied the concept - "Hogwash!" - and denied any sense of culpability ("you have no one to blame but yourself"). Now you say that there may be culpability, but that "it won't come close in normal gyms". Thank you for changing your mind! In any case, the evidence presented is that involuntary urination, throwing…

> the competitive culture pressures you into continuing

This was referring to CrossFit competitive pressure specifically, not general competitive pressure. I've been involved with CrossFit since 2007 and I've never seen anything close to that level of pressure. You invoked the legal definition of culpability, and if you can't establish that, then my statement "you have no one to blame but yourself" is exactly what you have to come back to. Even TFA doesn't invoke that argument, because that would change the focus to individual trainers rather than CrossFit as an organization. Are there trainers that would lose a culpability lawsuit? Mayyyyyybe. But those are going to be very rare and extreme cases that are impossible for CrossFit HQ to prevent. Also, that's why gyms have you sign waivers. The waiver informs you in no uncertain terms that this stuff is dangerous.

So, we agree that culpability is not the subject here. That brings us to your new point: that it's somehow a problem that CrossFit has a higher rate of rhabdo. That's like saying that surfers are more likely to be the victims of shark attacks. No duh. IOTTMCO. Shark attacks are not healthy things for the body and are to be avoided, yes? Of course. Looking life with that view effectively paralyzes you. Everything is risky, so it's not about avoiding risky things. It's about making a tradeoff.

> Or is the presented data incorrect?

There is no presented data. TFA was nothing but anecdotes. Scary, sensationalist anecdotes. And for every one of those, I've got thousands of overwhelmingly positive anecdotes. In my case I got stronger and more fit. My body fat, cholesterol, and blood pressure decreased and I have actual data to prove it. I also noticed increased quickness, agility, and reaction time in everyday life.

So we agree there is a risk. But I (and many others) believe that the rewards are more than worth the risk. If you are one of the rare people who has gotten rhabdo while doing CrossFit, then you probably will be less comfortable with that tradeoff. And that's ok too.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#198

Post by mudetroit »

enraged_camel wrote: post #178
spinlock wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the article's title calls rhabdo a secret but if you read the article - and the comment at the top of this thread - you'll notice that Glassman and every CrossFit coach I've ever met talks about it all the time. In fact, I bet you can't find one person who does CrossFit who doesn't know what it is.

>>you'll notice that Glassman and every CrossFit coach I've ever met talks about it all the time. Look dude, the problem is not that they don't talk about it. The problem is that they make people do complex exercises in a manner that significantly increases risk of rhabdo and a ton of other injuries despite knowing about those risks . This is irresponsible at best and grossly negligent at worst. There is a way to lif…

FWIW,it can absolutely be that way, and I have visited at a few gyms that I would never go back to. I also know that at my gym, if a coach notices you breaking proper form at all they immediately work with you on it, or have you back down an bit be it in speed or weight.

I am in no way saying that the bad behaviors described above, and you can absolutely get a cult like mindset focused around entirely the wrong thing. I would also say that I think some of the nature of the workout strategies in general may attract these kind of behaviors.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#199

Post by kareemm »

enraged_camel wrote: post #158
mchughj wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you should go back and read the prior response and then think a little bit about whether or not it represents a "cult-like irrationality".

If you showed someone how fucked up Scientology is, and they came back with, "well, my experiences with it have been totally different - your local church must be bad. You should have done better research before joining it!" then yeah, that would be complete cult-like mentality.

Given that there are high degrees of variation in quality across CrossFit affiliates, it's possible that customers of one box have better and safer experiences than customers at another.

If this is true -- and it is -- then "well, my experiences with it have been totally different" is also true, and has nothing to do with being cult-like.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#200

Post by foobarqux »

dkarl wrote: post #89
foobarqux wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doesn't this guy know that the new scandal is high-rep box jumps? Are gymnastic ring muscle ups coming soon?

I've always though push-ups would be the next thing. People can do them without a solid fitness base, the low effort means they usually have a high rep count attached to them, and a lot of people don't know how easy it is to do them wrong. The thing about muscle-ups is that most people can't do them without a little bit of coaching, so by the time they're doing them for reps, they know how to do them right.

Gymnastic rings are inherently unstable: If the rings go too far back you can tear your shoulder. Being tired increases the risk. Even, strong, experienced people have sustained shoulder injuries doing muscle ups.
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