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How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

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Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#51

Post by snom380 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #49
takluyver wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the steps look like they're checking that various warning lights and systems work correctly, which needs a human in the loop. I guess there are other bits which require human decisions - e.g. you can't start the engines without visually checking that no-one is standing near them. Finally, any automation is another possible system that could fail, so it needs more examination and testing.

Well, I mean, you could if they integrated sensors into the engine cowling to detect the presence of a foreign object greater than size X within X meters of the engine. Baby steps. Another 5-10 years, and flight will be entirely a tech issue. Example: Airbus A380 fly by wire.

What's special about the A380 FBW? I think you're optimistic with that 5-10 years.

Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#52

Post by toomuchtodo »

snom380 wrote: post #51
toomuchtodo wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean, you could if they integrated sensors into the engine cowling to detect the presence of a foreign object greater than size X within X meters of the engine. Baby steps. Another 5-10 years, and flight will be entirely a tech issue. Example: Airbus A380 fly by wire.

What's special about the A380 FBW? I think you're optimistic with that 5-10 years.

http://www.airbus.com/innovation/proven-concepts/in-design/f...

"Incorporating fly-by-wire controls on the A320 allowed Airbus to tailor the aircraft’s computer flight control laws – adapting them to the pilots’ side-stick controllers that replaced previous-generation control yokes – while also introducing flight envelope protection. As a result, flight safety was greatly increased and the crew’s workload was reduced."

Now, that's a lot of marketing fluff, but aircraft manufacturers continue to abstract away flight workload. Navigation relies heavily on GPS, and once the FAA's NextGen ATC system is fully implemented (ADS-B, etc), you'll see victor airways give way to direct routing. Point, click, navigation done. Flight separation can be automated as well with ADS-B. Aircraft can already perform fully automated landings using autoland at Class III ILS runways (which will make way for cheaper, more precise Local Area Augmentation System, which is just a fancy DGPS/RTK precision positioning system for airports).

I used the A380 as an example, but the same could be said for Boeing's Dreamliner. Tech moves slower in aircraft because of FAA regulations and conservative views (its lives we're talking about of course), but its getting there.

I would be surprised if you didn't have fully automated flights (take off, cruise, landing) in 5-10 years using the same guts from UAVs. You'll still have a pilot onboard, but their workload will be minimal.

Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#54

Post by bulte-rs »

gvb wrote: post #48
bulte-rs wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awesome!!! Never knew it actually operates over TCP/IP, I always assumed some custom protocol/ARINC interop between the two units. Can you perhaps elaborate in some way on the dev environment When working on "stuff like that"? :)

New systems (not the 737 FMS) use ARINC-664[1] - UDP/TCP/IP/ethernet with all the good parts disallowed. :-) The original Dual FMS predates ARINC-664. The original Dual FMS was a Motorola 68040 (the predecessor FMS was the TI TMS9900 architecture implemented in bit-slice processors(!), later an ASIC, because the TI 9900 was a bust. The original code was Fortran, with the Dual FMS it was ported to Ada. The development…

You sir, completely made my day! Both of my nerd personalities envy you :)

Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#55

Post by galvanist »

ballooney wrote: post #14

As someone who has designed avionics for experimental aircraft and rockets, one of the satisfying highlights, like the salty sticky bits as you mop up the plate of a roast, is designing and building the switch panels. Just as web-UI design can be an all-consuming obsession to get it 'just-so', you can loose yourself in comparisons between rotary switches - finding one with just the right torque and a satisfying posit…

I love this comment.

Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#57

Post by bulte-rs »

yetanotherphd wrote: post #37
downandout wrote: post #28

Well.....what could possibly go wrong there? There have been several air disasters over the years that resulted from a failure to flip the right switch or check certain settings, either in-flight or pre-flight. A Greek crash where the pilot forgot to flip the auto-pressurization switch, killing most on board before the crash itself, comes to mind. This video leaves little wonder why these things happen. Having spent…

I was also thinking about this. Even if the controls and procedures remain completely unchanged, it should be possible to issue warnings when things were done wrong. In fact I'd be surprised if this wasn't at least partially implemented already.

Next to some planes having electronicaketen checklists; some "older planes" have a somewhat simpler form of digital checks. For example: the 737-800 has a take-off configuration warning (a Horn) When the thrust levers are advanced without having set a proper flap setting for take-off.

(Unfortunately: this Horn is the same Horn as the cabin altitude warning Horn, having a big part in the mentioned greek airline incident)

Re: How to start up a Boeing 737 [video]

#58

Post by commandar »

sbierwagen wrote: post #10

Here's a 10:55 video going through the process of starting up a A-10 in the DCS A-10 simulator, with the guy actually explaining what each step does unlike OP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9xWYLlhFwg

It's actually possible to compress that startup significantly too. The most time-consuming part of the A-10C's start up process -- by far -- is the roughly 4.5 minute wait for the navigation system to align.

If you skip the ground align (the system can align in the air; it just takes longer and is a bit less accurate but the latter isn't modeled in the sim), someone that knows what they're doing can have the plane rolling down the taxiway in ballpark 90 seconds.

I'm not an A-10 pilot, but I have a couple hundred hours pretending to be one in DCS. ;)

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