CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret • Hacker News Board

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#161

Post by kylered » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:05 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #95

kylered wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). This author hasn't been to a well-managed gym or worked with more experienced coaches. The same is likely true of those who get rhabdo. They have exposed themselves to more than their body can handle physically, as a result of poor coaching,…

crossfit is a scam. People go to crossfit to become more fit. Since they are presumably novices, how exactly are they supposed to evaluate the instruction they receive? Crossfit, as implicitly admitted in your post, is perfectly willing to allow poor and dangerous instruction to be sold with their name, as long as the cash keeps on coming. and this: If you go to a gym (CrossFit or not) that programs things that expos…

I wish standards were higher; I've had that wish since starting a gym. Most gyms are good, most trainers mean well, but there are a few bad apples and people who are unaware.

I'm not turning a blind eye. There is a different between being a realist and trying to garner attention by bashing a trend that you don't understand.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#162

Post by kylered » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:12 AM UTC

PanTardovski wrote: post #147

kylered wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). This author hasn't been to a well-managed gym or worked with more experienced coaches. The same is likely true of those who get rhabdo. They have exposed themselves to more than their body can handle physically, as a result of poor coaching,…

If Crossfit is a franchise then the brand identity is based on the quality of those franchises. If there are significant injuries happening under the supervision of Crossfit certified coaches then that says the training and testing HQ uses is insufficient. Since the Crossfit brand ultimately is composed of (a) potentially dangerous (if unsupervised/coached) WODs and (b) trainer certification then if people are being…

Do most good CrossFit gyms get concerned about poor standards and rapid expansion of the brand? Yes. Do most coaches mean well and concern themselves with preventing injury? Yes.

I do wonder about significant injuries. Why is Hackernews, which is a community that prides itself on scientific method and the like, upvoting sensational articles that don't have substance? Where are the studies that say injuries are significant? Relative to what? To not working out? To regular sports? To people at Gold's Gym?

CrossFit is far from perfect, and it's not for everyone, but the vast majority of the coaches, owners, etc mean well and want to help their clients achieve goals in ways that are different, and effective, compared to the status quo.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#163

Post by smsm42 » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:15 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #153

smsm42 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people that would encourage others to do street racing, take dangerous drugs and light their farts for youtube video. And there always will be idiots who do it. That can happen in a gym setting too. So what? There are dumb people. Try not to be one of them. I think this message is universal and doesn't have anything to do with CF. What is the message that has something to do with it?

>>There are dumb people. Try not to be one of them. Peer pressure can make smart people do dumb things. And since Crossfit has peer pressure and competition built into its very core, the rates of injuries and potentially-fatal medical conditions like rhabdo are a lot higher.

Well, I think it depends on how you approach to it. It doesn't have to be a competition with anyone but yourself. I agree that tracking results is at the core of CF, and when there's something measurable in a group setting, there is ample space for the competition. But it doesn't have to be - the choice is for the person to make. If you can let your mind and not your ego drive you, then you don't have to harm yourself for no reason.

As for peer pressure - I think when a person above 22 or so of age is not able to withstand peer pressure to do something he thinks is harmful for him/her, there's something wrong happened on the way. Adults are supposed to be able to say no. Of course, you may make a choice to push yourself and take a risk, but that's what being responsible adult is all about - seeing where are the bounds of acceptable risk (and those can be different from person to person) are for you. Of course, again, good teacher is important - so you could always can consult what would be good for you on this exercise. Good coach can see how you do the exercise and tell if this weight or this form is good for you or you have to scale it down. That's where you have to, again, master your ego and be responsible too.

And of course it is a given that you shouldn't go to a group which has different views on how competitive it should be and pressures you into something you're not ready for. There's a lot of difference between supporting and cheering somebody when one chooses to push oneself and pressuring somebody into doing something one is not ready for. If you find yourself in a group that does the latter and not the former - just leave. There are a lot of better settings.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#164

Post by kylered » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:25 AM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #120

kylered wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). This author hasn't been to a well-managed gym or worked with more experienced coaches. The same is likely true of those who get rhabdo. They have exposed themselves to more than their body can handle physically, as a result of poor coaching,…

> I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). Ah, the No True Crossfit Gym argument. Everyone always seems to come from the one good Crossfit gym where correct form is emphasised. Where the coaches are wonderful. And so on. The point is: trainees very rarely have the knowledge, qualifi…

Our gym is not perfect, but we set standards and have a mission to serve clients in the most effective way possible.

What if HQ has good goals and it's not about "milking," but exposing people to a more effective fitness methodology?

Personally, I believe that quality is going to drive the success or failure of CrossFit, and that's why we (and many other successful gyms) have been very devoted to making sure quality is a driver in our service.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#165

Post by vonseel » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:26 AM UTC

Whitespace wrote: post #20

TL;DR: I got rhabdo from crossfit last year. My CPK was 100,000 and I spent 5 days in the hospital. I wasn't overweight but I wasn't fit when I got it, and I got it during the first day of a beginner course. Ask me anything. ============================== I did crossfit for a couple of months in 2010 and loved it, but I had to stop since I moved to a new apartment and the gym times wouldn't work with the longer commu…

My brother is an MD in internal medicine, got rhabdo on his first P90X workout and was in hospital 4 days. Off to read the article now...

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#166

Post by kylered » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:29 AM UTC

mchughj wrote: post #109

kylered wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). This author hasn't been to a well-managed gym or worked with more experienced coaches. The same is likely true of those who get rhabdo. They have exposed themselves to more than their body can handle physically, as a result of poor coaching,…

First, TL;DRs go at the top. That is the whole point. :) Second, most crossfit gyms at not well-managed. They may mean well but the quality of the instruction can be awful. Finally, you should post the name of your gym and the competition here. I travel a lot and like to visit quality crossfit locations!

Is that your experience? I travel a lot and find that most gyms do a good job.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#167

Post by kylered » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #145

kylered wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been CrossFitting for over 6 years, owned an affiliate for 4 years, and founded the largest independent CrossFit-style competition series in the country (as far as I know). This author hasn't been to a well-managed gym or worked with more experienced coaches. The same is likely true of those who get rhabdo. They have exposed themselves to more than their body can handle physically, as a result of poor coaching,…

TL;DR - people who are irrational are dumb. You say that like being "dumb" is a moral failure.

There was some irony in there...

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#168

Post by fingerprinter » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:40 AM UTC

kylered wrote: post #162

PanTardovski wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Crossfit is a franchise then the brand identity is based on the quality of those franchises. If there are significant injuries happening under the supervision of Crossfit certified coaches then that says the training and testing HQ uses is insufficient. Since the Crossfit brand ultimately is composed of (a) potentially dangerous (if unsupervised/coached) WODs and (b) trainer certification then if people are being…

Do most good CrossFit gyms get concerned about poor standards and rapid expansion of the brand? Yes. Do most coaches mean well and concern themselves with preventing injury? Yes. I do wonder about significant injuries. Why is Hackernews, which is a community that prides itself on scientific method and the like, upvoting sensational articles that don't have substance? Where are the studies that say injuries are signif…

I feel there are several rather nuanced views on this. You are likely looking at from the affiliate owner perspective. Others might be looking at from an outsiders perspective. I'm looking at as from a programming standpoint. And I'm sure there are other viewpoints as well, many overlapping to some degree.

All that said, you don't need data to show that kipping pullups are a bad idea. We could get data on the number of tears or injuries, but from a programming perspective, they do not belong anywhere near an athlete. Anywhere (I really hope you don't kip in your affiliate. Please tell me you don't). Particularly a novice. And if I was a games athlete, I'd never want to see them. One wrong kip and there goes your year. Which, of course, could be said for most any lift, but the kip is particularly egregious in this regard.

And when I walk into a Crossfit gym in Phoenix and they have their intro class kipping on their first day, that negatively effects you. Like it or not, you and all other crossfit gyms are linked. Just as bad service in one Subway likely taints my view of Subway generally. Just the way it works.

And you have to remember, you as an affiliate have your name associated with HQ. And HQ is just plain bad. A couple of days ago they promoted this on their FB page. https://www.facebook.com/crossfit/posts/10151589356812676

Now, I don't care what you think about anything else, HQ should not be promoting this type of thing. There was no caveat, no disclaimer. Just some hashtags of #sketchy #nailedit (from the original poster). I know Glassman has a staunch libertarian view on the world, but fucking hell, HQ is supposed to be the role model. And this effects you, negatively, frankly, b/c you are an affiliate. Just as when some fraternity out there gets caught up in a huge rape scandal, all fraternities get slammed.

And then there is the sexist posts from HQ.

And the bad programming.

And Castro.

And Glassman.

And the Robb Wolf dust up.

And the Rippetoe dust up.

IMO, as an affiliate, you should be DEMANDING higher standards. The affiliates should be getting together and creating these standards, forcing them on HQ and making damn sure they are adhered to. HQ is obviously incapable of leading. Someone has to...might as well be you.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#169

Post by sangu1s » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 3:51 AM UTC

abuehrle wrote: post #114

pcorsaro wrote: post #8

I hate reading articles like this because it's trying to tell you that CrossFit culture is all about pushing yourself until you've practically killed yourself doing all sorts of crazy and whacky weight lifting. 99% of the time, the problem isn't CrossFit, it's the coaches. If you're at a good gym (or box as it's called), the coaches know how to scale workouts for the athletes so they won't get hurt, and they're progr…

Well put. Evaluating "CrossFit" is difficult by design---HQ wants boxes to be almost completely autonomous. The best statement of CrossFit's philosophy is Greg Glassman's "World-Class Fitness in 100 Words"[1]. There's nothing there about doing lots of poor quality reps as quickly as possible. I began my CrossFit career at San Francisco CrossFit and thought it was the best thing ever. Part of each session focused on m…

> Part of each session focused on mobility.

I'd hope so at SFCF. You ever get to work with KStar? Jealous.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#170

Post by abuehrle » Sun, Sep 22, 2013, 4:49 AM UTC

sangu1s wrote: post #169

abuehrle wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. Evaluating "CrossFit" is difficult by design---HQ wants boxes to be almost completely autonomous. The best statement of CrossFit's philosophy is Greg Glassman's "World-Class Fitness in 100 Words"[1]. There's nothing there about doing lots of poor quality reps as quickly as possible. I began my CrossFit career at San Francisco CrossFit and thought it was the best thing ever. Part of each session focused on m…

> Part of each session focused on mobility. I'd hope so at SFCF. You ever get to work with KStar? Jealous.

Every Tuesday morning! It was awesome.

Kelly's sessions in particular always had a theme. For example: we might practice Turkish Getups for 10 minutes, focusing on shoulder stability. Then the "WOD" might be alternating dumbbell push press and 400m sprints. The idea was to pay attention to shoulder position and stability even as the sprints exhausted us.

All of the coaches were (are) great teachers. It was about so much more than simply getting a workout in. It felt like we did everything for a reason. Combine that with awesome, supportive people (everyone shakes hands with anyone they don't already know before every session) and a killer location (a parking lot under the Golden Gate Bridge)---it was magical.

This is why it's silly to make judgements about "CrossFit". CrossFit is a fine system/philosophy/whatever. Find a box with a good atmosphere where you can learn things from people who know more than you do. It's like anything else.