CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret • Hacker News Board

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#51

Post by foobarqux » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #11

Rehash from five years ago? Doesn't this guy know that the new scandal is high-rep box jumps? The "dirty secret" of Crossfit is that they don't do much to actively ensure the quality of local affiliates, and therefore the brand doesn't always mean much. My personal experiences have all been great, and my coaches have always been extremely safety-conscious, but in light of the nasty things I read on the internet, I wo…

> Doesn't this guy know that the new scandal is high-rep box jumps?

Are gymnastic ring muscle ups coming soon?

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#52

Post by gknoy » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:09 PM UTC

Jayschwa wrote: post #23

kareemm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough this video was posted to the FB group of the CrossFit gym I go to... a gym I chose because of the quality of programming and emphasis on technique and mobility. There's no bravado there. Here was one coach's response: "Haha, this video is infamous! It's the "proof" that critics of CrossFit use to try and show that the entire sport is dangerous and that we don't know what we're doing. There are de…

The coach's response is not reassuring. Anyone trying it for the first time should start with a weight light enough that they can hold the correct form and not lose control.

Absolutely. I'm grateful that our coaches always tell us (and other new people) to do bar sets, and even do the workout lifts with either PVC or the light bar only when we are still mastering form. Safety > all.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#53

Post by Raphmedia » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:10 PM UTC

I have a lot of coworkers that injured themselves doing CrossFit. I don't understand why CrossFit is such a trend in the tech industry.

It seems like an easy way to hurt yourself.

Simply go to the gym and do your own workout...

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#54

Post by freshhawk » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:17 PM UTC

ok_craig wrote: post #33

What's different about CrossFit from regular exercise? It doesn't give a summary of what it is or how it's different. That makes me scared that all exercise has this risk, especially lifting weights, which I enjoy. Is that true?

The main difference I see is that CrossFit is presented as a sport in and of itself, rather than a way to train for other sports.

Your second point is not true if you follow the most basic guidelines for making sure you have good form and don't overtrain. It's the culture of competing against others to finish a set workout quickly that distinguishes crossfit, that both motivates people to train harder, makes people who like competition enjoy tough and normally dull workouts and also leads to bad form and overtraining.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#55

Post by smsm42 » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:19 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #40

To be honest, Crossfit has quite a few dark secrets. This one, though, can kill you. What are crossfit's dark secrets? First and foremost, well, it's terrible. The programming coming from HQ is just plain awful. There are many programs out there now (Outlaw, Competitors WOD, CF Football etc) that fill the gap and actually give decent programming, but the programming from crossfit.com is really, really bad. Did you kn…

So, you're saying people all over the world aren't bound to a single programming but individual coaches and athletes are actually allowed to exercise judgement - and this is a BAD thing? I see.

>>> There is also a culture that promotes things like rips

I've been doing CF for 2 years and reading forums, etc. and I have never encountered an example of this. Sure, if someone rips a hand there might be some amount of bravado, esp. from the males, in the vein of "oh, it's nothing, just a flesh wound" (insert Monty Python clip here) - but nobody ever that I met in his sane mind would actually strive for that.

>>> /r/crossfit

I'd say /r/almost anything is probably not the best example of maturity, but one over-macho in a several day is not that big a deal, from what I know about Reddit. Unless specifically /r/crossfit is an island of maturity in /r/* world, it's only to be expected.

>>> and general bad form is ok in the name of better times.

Which is exactly the opposite of what I see in real CF. Up to the point that the coach would stop me mid-timed workout and correct my form and insist I do it right. Sometimes I hate it in the heat of the moment, but once I've cooled off I am grateful because it's exactly what they are supposed to do. Where I do CF, a lot of time is spent on practicing form, and I've been told numerous times something like "tame our ego, don't go for higher weights until you get the form right". Form importance and doing exercises safely and properly is constantly emphasized.

Of course, I am not in competitive CF (and probably won't ever be) and when it gets to big sports things might be different, as they always are, but I am telling what I am seeing in day-to-day life in my CF box, and it's nothing like you're describing.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#56

Post by mightybyte » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:20 PM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #40

To be honest, Crossfit has quite a few dark secrets. This one, though, can kill you. What are crossfit's dark secrets? First and foremost, well, it's terrible. The programming coming from HQ is just plain awful. There are many programs out there now (Outlaw, Competitors WOD, CF Football etc) that fill the gap and actually give decent programming, but the programming from crossfit.com is really, really bad. Did you kn…

Just saying that the programming is bad doesn't make it so. You probably just don't have the same goals that crossfit.com is designing its workouts for.

Also, the fact that elite CrossFit athletes don't do exclusively crossfit.com workouts doesn't support your point either. Those guys are genetic freaks. The crossfit.com workouts are designed for broad applicability, and that will never work as well at the margins.

CrossFit has actually stated a very precise definition for what they are trying to optimize. And the mainsite workouts are actually quite good at doing that.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#57

Post by DenisM » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

callmeed wrote: post #9

This article seems a little sensationalist. Just because a journal had an article about it with a cartoon attached doesn't mean they've adopted as a "mascot" or make light of the condition. My wife has been doing crossfit full-force for almost a year (including some competitions [1]). Along with previous standard workouts and diet changes, she's lost 60+ lbs over the past 2 years. And she's getting pretty buff. She's…

There are people who smoked their white lives and never got cancer. I hope you see my point.

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#58

Post by gknoy » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

ok_craig wrote: post #33

What's different about CrossFit from regular exercise? It doesn't give a summary of what it is or how it's different. That makes me scared that all exercise has this risk, especially lifting weights, which I enjoy. Is that true?

My crossfit experiences mix the challenges of lifting with the constant encouragement of peers, or perhaps a dojo? I find that having a guided workout and others doing the same thing with me helps me to actually __do__ it. On my own, I have never been able to work out with the focus OR intensity needed to do it properly.

My coaches are always careful to talk about how safety is important, and help weaker people modify in ways that are safe but still excercise similar muscle groups. They've told me to stop a workout when they felt I was pushing too hard. They (and the other athletes at my box) have been extremely supportive of my personal focus on doing the form correctly, even if that means I am slow, or rest between reps.

Sure, our box has athletes who can whip out dozens of pullups in a row. (I'll be thrilled when I can do one.) But we also have people who have sat there after their workout is done and helped me count my last reps, or even actually done burpees with me.

The encouragement is a huge high. It's what hooked me. I can very much understand how, if one is not careful, one might push oneself Too Far. I don't think I am physically capable of doing that yet, so I'm grateful for reading this reminder to be careful.

Also, box jumps. Screw those things, and I'm glad that stepping down from them rather than jumping is the way to go. ;)

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#59

Post by dkarl » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #43

dkarl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the years I have contemplated joining Crossfit (mostly for the comradery aspect), but the insane level of cult mentality has made me shy away from it every time. That's a good reason to shun a particular location or instructor, but I and a lot of other people have had completely opposite experiences. If the workouts interest you, I encourage you to give it a try and see what the instructors are like. Maybe ask J…

>>That's a good reason to shun a particular location or instructor, but I and a lot of other people have had completely opposite experiences. Before I posted that, I knew that a Crossfitter would respond and defend Crossfit. That is the level of cult-like irrationality I am talking about: looking at statistics (such as the ones about much higher incidence of Rhambo in Crossfitters) and responding with anecdotal evide…

After you went out of your way to thank someone for an anecdote that confirmed your bias, you'll have to forgive me for believing that you're reacting to my point of view, not the nature of my evidence. All I said is that you should see for yourself and trust your own judgment. To quote myself, "they don't do much to actively ensure the quality of local affiliates.... I wouldn't encourage anyone to blindly trust whatever local Crossfit affiliate happens to pop up down the block."

Re: CrossFit's Dirty Little Secret

#60

Post by mightybyte » Sat, Sep 21, 2013, 10:27 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #48

fingerprinter wrote: post #40

To be honest, Crossfit has quite a few dark secrets. This one, though, can kill you. What are crossfit's dark secrets? First and foremost, well, it's terrible. The programming coming from HQ is just plain awful. There are many programs out there now (Outlaw, Competitors WOD, CF Football etc) that fill the gap and actually give decent programming, but the programming from crossfit.com is really, really bad. Did you kn…

Whoever came up with the idea of high-rep olympic lifts needs to be shot. Seriously, it's incredibly dangerous. Olympic lifts are very complex mechanical movements and it takes real Olympic athletes months if not years to master the form. There's a reason for that: if the form is not correct, you open yourself to significant risk of potentially-permanent injury. The problem with doing them with high repetition (and u…

I don't think there's much evidence to demonstrate that high-rep olympic lifts done by a trained person are any more dangerous then low-rep lifts at high weight. Yes, if you don't have good technique you're asking for trouble, but that's not what we're talking about here.

I don't think form breaks down after a few reps nearly as much as you say. There's probably a point at which it will, but there's a lot of room for breakdown that doesn't meaningfully increase your risk of injury.

> but the competitive culture pressures you into continuing

Hogwash. Each person is responsible for their own actions. Yes, competition might help people push themselves, but that shouldn't turn you into a mindless machine that will self destruct just to get the win. If it does, then you have no one to blame but yourself.