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How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

papersplease.org

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Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#31

Post by snitko »

rayiner wrote: post #25
snitko wrote: post #8

I don't mean to undermine the effort of put into the lawsuit and this careful analysis. But... Shocking. Government has access to passenger's itinerary. I mean, with all the recent revelations, we might have just assumed that.

Uh, what exactly is shocking about this? The government has the right to know the precise identity of each and every person that's crossing its borders. It's also reasonably entitled to know the identify of each person flying into its sovereign airspace. How do you think they enforce visas and customs?

I would start with the question of why is it that people need visas. We live on the same earth. We should be allowed to travel wherever we want. It's ridiculous.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#32

Post by snitko »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #15
atlanticus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is part of the "Five Eyes" but enjoy your placebo.

Yes but passing through our airports isn't a nightmare...

Or so one might think... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24mlK24YDPI

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#33

Post by malandrew »

mmagin wrote: post #26
AJ007 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never cross any border, US or otherwise, with a mobile phone, laptop, or any sensitive documents. Neither should your employees, if their device are user for work. This is not a new revelation. Industrial espionage by spy services has been ongoing for a very long time.

How would you put this into action if you're a typical business traveler? It doesn't seem very practical.

The typical business traveler doesn't need gigabytes and gigabytes of documents. If you are traveling and need sensitive documents, buy a new laptop at your destination and load the data you need on it. When leaving, wipe it and leave it in a place where you or another employee can pick it up next time they are in that country.

It's unfortunate that business people (as opposed to programmers) typically don't have something as compact and transferrable as dotfiles for getting up and running on a branch new machine.

The question is how to travel with a new set of private keys securely so you don't give them up on exit. Coming back isn't a problem because you can just revoke access for that temporary public-private key pair before you log off during your last ssh session before returning to the country.

I don't think this is practical now. But it is a known problem and solutions for quickly getting a machine up and running are getting better and better. I imagine that a chef or puppet script could be used on the new machine to get everything up and running. You just need to ssh in once to fetch the script that would set up the machine at your destination.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#34

Post by joering2 »

maratd wrote: post #5
sbarre wrote: post #3

"DHS lawyers claimed that international travel provides, in and of itself, sufficient Constitutional basis for detention and search of international travellers and the search, seizure and copying of the digital contents of their belongings." Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. edit: I'm aware that later in the article they say the…

> Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. The insinuation being that the US is the only country doing this? I hate this sort of thing as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend the US is the only country engaging in this behavior. We can certainly expect better, but don't blind yourself to the obvious. Based on recent events, mayb…

> The insinuation being that the US is the only country doing this?

Can you please make up your mind? Either Americans are "exceptional" and this is "the best country in the world", or not. If not then I don't think its okay to hate on others when they are upset with things happening on this soil.

As we all know things in US go downhill since a while. This issue would not suprise in Russia in 80s or on Cuba, but if US is exceptional then it will be judged by exceptional rules. In this case it shows US fails miserably on "land of the free, home of the brave".

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#35

Post by ThomPete »

maratd wrote: post #5
sbarre wrote: post #3

"DHS lawyers claimed that international travel provides, in and of itself, sufficient Constitutional basis for detention and search of international travellers and the search, seizure and copying of the digital contents of their belongings." Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. edit: I'm aware that later in the article they say the…

> Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. The insinuation being that the US is the only country doing this? I hate this sort of thing as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend the US is the only country engaging in this behavior. We can certainly expect better, but don't blind yourself to the obvious. Based on recent events, mayb…

Its not the only one but it shouldn't be one of those who do.

Go to the scandinavian countries and experience how effective, friendly and welcoming airport terminals can be.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#36

Post by scott_karana »

atlanticus wrote: post #13
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

One of the many reasons I never fly to/from the US, and avoid ever passing through.

Canada is part of the "Five Eyes" but enjoy your placebo.

Most (all?) Canadian airports do not use neutron scanners, and have a traditional security layout. There is a lot less hassle.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#37

Post by United857 »

maratd wrote: post #5
sbarre wrote: post #3

"DHS lawyers claimed that international travel provides, in and of itself, sufficient Constitutional basis for detention and search of international travellers and the search, seizure and copying of the digital contents of their belongings." Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. edit: I'm aware that later in the article they say the…

> Really? Fucking hell.. With every month that goes by, I am less and less inclined to travel to, or do business in, the US.. The insinuation being that the US is the only country doing this? I hate this sort of thing as much as the next guy, but let's not pretend the US is the only country engaging in this behavior. We can certainly expect better, but don't blind yourself to the obvious. Based on recent events, mayb…

Yes, and I think people forget this in singling out the US. Remember that the Five Eyes (US/UK/CA/AU/NZ) essentially operate as one security mechanism.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#38

Post by functional_test »

snitko wrote: post #31
rayiner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, what exactly is shocking about this? The government has the right to know the precise identity of each and every person that's crossing its borders. It's also reasonably entitled to know the identify of each person flying into its sovereign airspace. How do you think they enforce visas and customs?

I would start with the question of why is it that people need visas. We live on the same earth. We should be allowed to travel wherever we want. It's ridiculous.

Since you're being downvoted, but no one has commented to explain why (it's not just that your opinion is unpopular), I feel like I should put in my thoughts. I once felt the way you do, but upon reflection I don't any longer, so I thought I should share why.

While you may believe that current surveillance has gone too far, advocating for no security is much too far the other direction. As usual, the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Without any visas or border control, you have no way to prevent ingress and egress of known criminals, people carrying infectious diseases, or any of myriad other actually real threats. Just because people exaggerate threats like terrorism does not mean there is nothing to defend against.

It is also important to prevent people who have no means of sustenance from moving into your country and becoming a burden. In no way am I implying that exceptions should not be granted for asylum or other exceptional circumstances. However, being in a country is a bit like being in a club -- everyone pays dues (taxes) and there are perks too. Why should club members want to give everyone the perks while they have all the responsibilities?

Your thought that people should try to be closer to one another is admirable, but I think if you reflect on it further, you'll agree that some forms of restriction are necessary.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#39

Post by gohrt »

rayiner wrote: post #23
ISL wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often wonder what the founders would think of the modern interpretation of the fourth amendment at our borders. How would they have chosen to balance privacy against security in our age?

Considering the border search exception dates back to legislation by the First Congress in 1789, I don't think they'd have much of a problem with the current interpretation.

"border search" was extremely more narrow in scope bath then, across all dimensions.

Re: How airline reservations are used to target illegal searches

#40

Post by snitko »

functional_test wrote: post #38
snitko wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would start with the question of why is it that people need visas. We live on the same earth. We should be allowed to travel wherever we want. It's ridiculous.

Since you're being downvoted, but no one has commented to explain why (it's not just that your opinion is unpopular), I feel like I should put in my thoughts. I once felt the way you do, but upon reflection I don't any longer, so I thought I should share why. While you may believe that current surveillance has gone too far, advocating for no security is much too far the other direction. As usual, the answer is somewh…

The problem is not that there are restrictions, but who imposes them and for what reason. Governments, for example, mostly don't want people to come and work illegally. Well, why do you think that is? It's because they would compete with the local labour force who would suffer in this case. Often forgotten is the fact that currently it's consumers who suffer from higher prices - this fact doesn't get nearly as much attention.

Diseases and criminal activity is just a small fraction of all immigration issues. Government doesn't care about it as much. I'd be absolutely fine with them if those were the only restrictions.

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