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Interviews are Broken

erniemiller.org

21–30 of 88 posts

Re: Interviews are Broken

#21
post #16

This person sounds completely insufferable. He basically is declaring himself too good for interviews (except for C-level execs, whom he apparently tolerates). Heaven forbid you don't just assume Ernie Miller is god's gift to your job position, because he is Ernie Miller and he is a special unique snowflake who is not to be insulted with petty questions pertaining to his ability to do the job. Anyway, good luck with…

If you are an interviewer, then you should be pleased - he's ruling himself out. Win-win.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#22
post #2

Yes. I have a new rule with recruiters. If you are trying to recruit me, make me an offer. Otherwise, go away. You called me, not the other way around. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of your hoops to prove to you for free that I can do what you already know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview. And I'm certain…

Mine is simpler: "Can I work remotely?" It seems to make them go away.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#23
post #4
post #2

Yes. I have a new rule with recruiters. If you are trying to recruit me, make me an offer. Otherwise, go away. You called me, not the other way around. I'm not going to jump through a bunch of your hoops to prove to you for free that I can do what you already know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview. And I'm certain…

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

I'd guess, might be wrong, that this isn't the type of thing was what Aqueous was referring to 'know that I can do just by looking at my resume, looking at some of my public projects, and asking me questions in an informal, short interview' I'd place emphasis on the last bit there.

The trouble is that, well, I hate to be like Kant but a lot of recruiters do just seem to have conversations that are very... spanish-inquisition-y... with virtually none of your personality there.

Like, when have I ever had a joke with them? Or an interesting discussion? When has a recruiter ever asked me about the people I work with/my friends? Or spent any real time talking with me my about my hobbies?

Hard to bring your personality out when people are asking you things like - "Would you consider yourself competitive?"

There's an underlying thing there where they're trying to guess at qualities they think contribute to behaviours they want in a very structured way rather than having a real conversation. And I'm sure we both know that people are more diverse than that, you can have lots of reasons for behaving in a particular way - not all of which the other person's going to be able to guess about.

It just feels really awkward, you know? You want to know how I'll fit in with your culture, invite me out for a glass of wine or something and we'll find something to laugh about. You want to get fake-happy-happy me then stick me in a horribly formal situation.

That said, I'm sure there are recruiters that treat you as human - and the more of them that are out there the better.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#24
It's interesting to note how many people that actually work at a place had to jump through all of the pre job offer hoops. I think you'll usually find a lot of people who were able to avoid much of that stuff because:

1) they were hired before the company started doing it

2) they new someone going in so they got hired without as much rigmarole.

3) they started as a contractor/freelancer and were converted to employee without interviewing

4) they came to the company through an acquisition

It seems like if you're not good at these annoying pre-offer activities that you're better off taking one of the above routes into a new job rather than trying to play these games.

[edit formatting]

Re: Interviews are Broken

#25
post #3

"If a company isn't making efforts to recognize you as an individual during the interview process, an accepted offer letter isn't going to promote you to personhood." This is a great point. I've noticed that culture tends to be pervasive. The good experiences I've had with companies started from first contact. So have the bad experiences.

Also applies as a consultant. Bad clients have noticeable red flags right from the start.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#26
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

>"...good culture fit." What does that mean, how is it determined via an interview and how is it weighted against all the other factors that make up a good hire?

The hard part of the job isn't writing code to a detailed spec that's assigned to you. It's knowing how to ask for clarification on requirements; how to balance speed of delivery with nebulous ideas of quality (how readable is my code, how effective are my tests, how extensible); how to decide which tools are right for the job.

When I look for cultural fit, I mean: will you have productive conversations with your colleagues; have you shown yourself to be inquisitive about new things beyond what you're assigned so that you have a good understanding of what a solved problem looks like; will you force yourself to find a way around hard problems or will you quietly give up and call the problem impossible or blame someone else; are you interested in solving customer problems and iterating rapidly, or in building the most "well-engineered" solution; do you think your role in the organization is to build products or direct them.

These aren't easy questions to answer, and they do open themselves up to bias in how you evaluate candidates. I like asking about folks' CV - even though there's already a written summary - to see what parts of a problem you considered most exciting and hard; I think that's revealing. But may not work for everyone.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#27
post #16

This person sounds completely insufferable. He basically is declaring himself too good for interviews (except for C-level execs, whom he apparently tolerates). Heaven forbid you don't just assume Ernie Miller is god's gift to your job position, because he is Ernie Miller and he is a special unique snowflake who is not to be insulted with petty questions pertaining to his ability to do the job. Anyway, good luck with…

Did you actually read the article, or just the big, bold letters? The point wasn't that I am special. It's that each person is an individual, and a company that doesn't recognize that situations differ and make reasonable accommodations is unlikely to be a company at which I (or many like me, if the comments are any indicator) would enjoy working.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#28
I'd say asking a candidate to implement levenshtein distance in an interview (probably not the best question to ask I'd say) is more about creating a level playing field for candidates who might not have "attended and spoken at relevant conferences" or have "a bunch of apps doing mission-critical work in production", but might be thoroughly productive and successful at XCorp nonetheless.

In fact, a candidate might have experience in something completely different but maybe just as impressive - publishing a paper on an optimization for an algorithm, creating a programming language, submitting Linux kernel patches, etc. How would one differentiate a candidate like that with someone with "a list of public repositories on GitHub as long as your arm"?

Re: Interviews are Broken

#29

Peroni writes in his top-level comment, "Give the candidate a realistic technical challenge to complete in a realistic timeframe, in an environment that will be indicative of the environment they would expect to work in should they succeed in getting the job." And of course that is saying "Give the candidate a work-sample test." That's a very well validated hiring procedure,[1] one that every company ought to use for…

The challenge here, in my experience on both sides of this, is that a developer's deep domain knowledge of a large or large-ish app is essential to a 'work-sample' environment. And that's virtually impossible to duplicate even in the longest interview time frame.

Making decisions about managing technical debt, adding architecturally-significant changes, balancing good OOP with responsiveness, knowing the difference between future-proofing and conscientious coding -- all of those are both crucial (in many cases the most crucial) to day-to-day work, and also so highly context-specific that those decision-making traits are nearly impossible to identify during a technical exercise.

So for coding challenges, that leaves short-term tactical/analytic/algorithmic exercises, which in (anecdotally) 95% percent of cases cannot begin to approach a 'work-sample' environment. I've yet to encounter a technical challenge that would tell me much more about a candidate than basically how fluent they are with their tools, how well they know syntax and some general design principles, and what, for instance, their TDD (or lack of) workflow is like. Probably some insight into line-level analytic and algorithmic ability.

All of that is helpful, but -- Trust Me Here!! -- can also be very deceiving. The same coders that can knock those challenges out of the park can also be highly-proficient Debt Machines, all the more destructive because of their special genius for cranking out architecturally suspect code at a breathtaking rate.

To get into a real 'work-context' flow of a large app requires weeks, sometimes months, and only then can you get full perspective on how a given coder is going to contribute to your team on an ongoing basis. To get a feel for what that will look like in an interview, I've found I have to pretty much rely on the candidate's past projects, and informal conversations around larger architectural and OO principles.

Re: Interviews are Broken

#30
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've done should be proof enough. It really isn't. It may be indicative of your technical ability however your past experience doesn't give me any indication if you'd be a good culture fit.

Isn't "cultural fit" another way to hide sexism, racism, and prejudice in the hiring process? I've seen it happen and it's a very good excuse to give to HR. Just like in social situations you can judge anyone pretty well in the first 5 minutes of a phone conversation, see if they will "click" with your team - hell you can almost do that just by looking at their open source (how they think/design). I don't need a high…

I had the pleasure of interviewing (and hiring) my first two team members just this past spring. To me, "culture fit" basically meant that the interview consisted mostly of us nerding the fuck out together. That really had nothing to do with sex, race, or any other prejudices.

(FWIW, those two guys have turned out to be truly awesome developers).

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