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Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

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Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#21
post #13

I don't doubt that playing Starcraft will build mental abilities. But if someone is playing Starcraft to become smarter, then they should probably think about other activities that will give you the same benefits in a faster and more domain relevant way. It's a great game. I love watching it. And I support professional players because they provide a source of entertainment. But it's not anything more than that.

Like what activities? If you don't like it, don't play it.

The key point is that playing SC2 seems to improve skills beyond the activity itself. Not a lot of activities have been shown to do that.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#22
post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

Yes, most people who play Starcraft II have something called "Ladder Anxiety."

There's even an article on Liquipedia (Team Liquid is one of the most prominent teams in the professional Starcraft scene) about anxiety during play:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dealing_with_anxiety

In general, I've found that, long term, if you are playing to win, it's not worth it to focus on the ladder - the MMR system will pit you up against people who are better or worse than you, in order to keep your winrate about even. It makes the game much more stressful than it is fun, though it does also make you think and move faster.

I prefer playing comp stomps (versus AIs) or casual games (like monobattles), something that I would have scoffed at when I was younger (and more competitive).

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#23
post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

Same with me but with Warcraft 3.

After 2 games, i'm so burned out and mentally tired to play another game.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#24
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

That's the type of experience that is a big turn off for me in games as well. People spend so much time studying the mechanics and economics of the game that eventually, pretty much every match plays out in exactly the same form. For RTS games, the build trees often get set in stone. Deviate from the one feasible tree and you might as well just be giving up because after a few minutes your opponent has just enough un…

I wholeheartedly recommend tournament-level magic:the gathering (available online as magic online). The game has mind-blowing depth while not being a clickfest. It's similar to deep board games like chess and go, but the random element and the variability introduced by thousands of available cards make it much more fun IMO.

The drawback I guess is that it can be pretty expensive, but the price is justified by unmatched quality of the gameplay. Plus, if you're good, it doesn't cost anything (you're actually making some money while playing).

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#25
post #6

I just got HotS a few days ago and started to write about the parallels I see to running a startup & building a great product. Not ready to play ladder yet but I'm motivated to get there :)

Yes, I think one of the first things you learn playing Starcraft is how much you suck at management. You play and it feels right as your play at your maximum pace. And later in the game or when watching the replay you discover how many mistakes you've made and how many things you just forgot to do and didn't even notice.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#26
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

That's the type of experience that is a big turn off for me in games as well. People spend so much time studying the mechanics and economics of the game that eventually, pretty much every match plays out in exactly the same form. For RTS games, the build trees often get set in stone. Deviate from the one feasible tree and you might as well just be giving up because after a few minutes your opponent has just enough un…

I usually don't log in, but your post had some common noob misconceptions about Starcraft and I wanted to clear them up before people take them as fact.

>People spend so much time studying the mechanics and economics of the game that eventually, pretty much every match plays out in exactly the same form.

Maybe on ladder, but in a tournament you will never see the same Best of 3 on a map... ever. That's the beauty of a tournament setting - the players are mostly playing each other and trying to metagame one another. On ladder, that's a problem that is solved by new maps in the map pool. Yes, maps get learned and then players will learn if pressure builds or fast expoing are strong on the map, but even then players can metagame their opponent on those maps (like going for a super early all-in on a map that favors macro play). SCOUTING IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT SKILL IN THE GAME. Players with phenomenal mechanics like ForGG & MarineKingPrime lose professional games constantly because of their bad scouting, on the same maps, vs the same opponents, because their opponent is doing strategies to counter what they usually do. It doesn't play out the same, ever. (although MKP needs to stop going CC first on the low ground and losing :) )

>Deviate from the one feasible tree and you might as well just be giving up because after a few minutes your opponent has just enough units to wipe you (and, since you didn't follow the build tree, you won't be able to counter it in time).

Starcraft 2 has harder counters than SC:BW did, but SC2 still has maintained the beautiful quality that SCBW did in that you can counter any strategy with a number of options, and each has their benefits and disadvantages to you as the game progresses. It's a commonly stated and completely wrong opinion that the game is so figured out that there are exact responses you must do in certain situations. When you're lower league (Bronze to Diamond) it will help to play more robotically, but as you get better you must be willing to throw your opponent off and respond to what they're doing unexpectedly. It benefits you to have the "knowledge" advantage in that game, unsurprisingly.

I'd like to mention that I've been Masters 8 seasons in a row, so this post comes from someone who has invested a lot of time into the game. Hopefully I didn't come off as too much of an ass but given how complex the game TRULY is, when people try to simplify it and then paint the game negatively for that simplified aspect... well I can't be having that. =]

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#27
post #5
post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

Ladder anxiety wouldn't be so bad if the SC community weren't so rude. Can't imagine how many times I've played a game really hard, thought it was super close, and have the opponent say "zzz" or "you suck uninstall."

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#28
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not really much different to other hobbies if your efficient at learning and improving. If you play a few games and then just stop then you wont improve much at all. But if you go back and analyse your play and your decisions at each point in the game you can quickly improve. And most parts of SC2 can be broken down into small parts which can be practiced with repetition, for instance practicing your build order…

Team games like Dota or League of Legends add another problem: I wouldn't worry that much if I get trashed individually, but when you're a part of a (randomly selected) team and you drag them down, I really get stressed. I worry to the point I haven't played a ranked game yet(I play LOL) , even though I reached Level 30 months ago. I'm sure there are some groups of casual players that don't mind having a mediocre pla…

I started playing MOBA games with Dota2 with some friends who had already played LoL and HoN so I was the new guy in a group of 4 so I got carried a fair ammoutn but now I dont care about playing in single matches if someone whines at me for being bad or what ever i just mute them get on with life. I've also made a few friends who I play with now and then.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#29
post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

Starcraft 2 is not about multitasking. Starcraft 2 is about context switching. That was a difficult thing for me to learn. You have a loop of tasks that are your "macro" tasks. Economy -> Supply-> Production -> Tech -> Repeat. When you need to respond to stimuli (Enemy units, drops), you change your loop to controlling your army during battle. Think of yourself as a thread scheduler. What you think is important is most likely not, which is one reason you may be having difficulty.

Think of your day as a programmer like a Starcraft game. You have to do each task well. You likely don't do two tasks at the same time. If you are, you are doing them poorly, so you do one at a time. Then, you context switch into the next task. Perhaps you move from coding to documentation writing. Or from coding to management meetings. You have to be able to see the next chain of tasks and switch the context in your brain.

Add in a response to changing needs (enemy units) and you have a great analogy for many things in life.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#30
post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

All this is very true. I used to play some other RTS games competitively (albeit for no tangible rewards) - Age of Empires II, C&C Generals - and matches can be very stressful. RTS games have so much going on at any given time.

I definitely can see how they would improve intelligence, strategic thinking skills, multi-tasking ability, etc...

But nowadays I like to relax as well, so I mostly just play turn-based strategy (on a FreeCiv kick right now), the odd RTS round in 0 A.D. (against the computer), and I hate to admit it, but I'm having alot of fun with Fez (just bought it for Linux with the latest Humble Bundle).

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