My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me • Hacker News Board

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#241

Post by outworlder » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:36 PM UTC

lgieron wrote: post #159

rorrr2 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood how the knowledge of the capitals of states or countries is useful in any way. It's meaningless. It can be easily looked up, if you need that information. I can't even imagine a practical scenario when one would need to know it.

It's hard to function in the world without some rudimentary knowledge of it. As for practical scenario, imagine your boss wants to send you to a conference in Paris, and you answer back with "Where?".

Yes, by the time you are an adult, you're expected to have some rudimentary understanding of geography and the arbitrary names humans assigned to places. I have a hard time imagining that someone would not know where Paris is by the time he reaches adult age. Not all learning is done at schools, you know.

Here's the thing: we have such things as maps. There are still occasions today (I'm almost 33) in which I am unsure where's a particular location. So I look it up. Next time it comes up, I won't have to.

I do not know the name of the capitals of most African countries. There are some small countries which I have probably forgotten about. But, if in doubt, I can research the damn things.

That's different from memorizing the multiplication tables.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#242

Post by bodhi » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:41 PM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #183

patio11 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese students probably do not work less hard than US students, or to greater effect. Wait wait, people really think American students do more work than Japanese kids? HAH. HAH. HAH. HAH. That's a good one. Seriously: Japanese schools don't assign 3 hours of homework because that would conflict with the 3 hours of "not required but it will ruin your life if you don't do it and then fail your next admissions exam"…

Damn, I thought there was some daylight between Korea and Japan in terms of messed up zero sum games cram schools. AIUI the pressure lets up rather a lot once one gets to university, yes? As in there is actual freedom to slack off and many do. Or is there no point between primary school and becoming a salaryman to chill out?

> AIUI the pressure lets up rather a lot once one gets to university, yes?

The running joke that I've heard is that university is the only vacation that a Japanese person will get in their life.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#243

Post by jeltz » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:43 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #213

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To which he answer "the capital of France" and everyone keep going. If I tell you that you need to go to Sucre for a meeting, do you know where that is? Probably not. You will google it, spend 5 seconds on the internet and boom, you know where it is. Putting countless hours to learn all of them is useless. This is time that could be spent learning things that are important in the modern world. The computers aren't go…

Without looking it up, I would guess a city named after Juan Mariscal Sucre (or is it the other way around?) must be in either Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Peru, or Bolivia. I would probably guess Ecuador on a hunch but that's probably wrong as their former currency was the Sucre and it would be funny to have a city named the same.

> Juan Mariscal Sucre

Actually he was called Antonio José, not Juan, and the capital of Bolivia is indeed named after him.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#244

Post by alt_f4 » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:43 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #217

alt_f4 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me at the emphasis on 1-2 hours of bible study.

Believe it or not, some families are religious. That's not necessarily a bad thing, even when that translates to structured education.

It ends up as a bad thing when it eventually translates to bad public policy. Like banning stem cells research with the justification that a large portion of the public has been schooled to believe in fairy tales.

So, unlike what the OP suggested, I do not consider this a good approach to home schooling at all. Unless children are given both sides of the story - the value of bible study vs. the criticisms - and then choose to study it, then you are effectively force-feeding religion to someone in their formative years. Depending on how "traditionalist" your views are, this could have profound effect on your child's educational achievements in sciences, should you end up enrolling him in a secular educational institution - like a State university.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#245

Post by jon-wood » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:44 PM UTC

Goronmon wrote: post #185

haldujai wrote: post #8

The mode of homework time appears to be 3 hours a night during weekdays, this is considered unbearable/a lot? Growing up this was the norm for me. The school in question runs from 8:00 AM to 2:20 PM with a 45 minute lunch break, recesses and homeroom included. With 3 hours of studying that brings you to a total of 9 hours - breaks (I couldn't find a schedule). Assuming 8 hours of sleep, 1 hour for dinner, 2 hours of…

The mode of homework time appears to be 3 hours a night during weekdays, this is considered unbearable/a lot? Growing up this was the norm for me. The school in question runs from 8:00 AM to 2:20 PM with a 45 minute lunch break, recesses and homeroom included. With 3 hours of studying that brings you to a total of 9 hours - breaks (I couldn't find a schedule). Assuming 8 hours of sleep, 1 hour for dinner, 2 hours of…

What the hell? By my reckoning that makes a 16 hour day. Any time an article about working hours like that pops up here the overwhelming opinion seems to be that its unsustainable and results in bad things happening, and yet there are countless people defending the US school system.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#246

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #240

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Focus should not be on memorizing anything I have to disagree. At that age the things you memorize get seared into your mind permanently. I can still effortlessly rattle off a few Shakespeare soliloquies a teacher had us memorize, for example. I think having 13 year olds memorize things is a great idea, but the things should be important and useful. I wish we had extensively drilled on mental arithmetic.

Here's what's happen when we focus on memorization: I suspect the most dangerous habit of thought taught in schools is that even if you don't really understand something, you should parrot it back anyway. http://lesswrong.com/lw/i2/two_more_things_to_unlearn_from_s... Which more or less directly leads to http://lesswrong.com/lw/iq/guessing_the_teachers_password/ With such a method what will be permanently seared into…

My point is there's a very valuable window at that age to permanently learn things. The window should be used to, for example, learn a ton of vocabulary in a foreign language. Or learn a bunch of arithmetic tables by heart, so you can do mental arithmetic without even thinking hard. To waste the window is silly. Learning such things as I mentioned isn't "parroting."

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#247

Post by loup-vaillant » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #228

aestra wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot be suspended for not saying the Pledge. You cannot be compelled to say the Pledge. Your rights were violated. The Supreme Court of the United State has ruled that it is well within your right to not say it. See West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Ed... Writing for the majority, Justice Jackson stated: "If there is any fixed star in ou…

Interesting that so many free speech cases were pioneered by the Jehovas Witnesses.

Not really. Pure self interest can explain this. As far as I know they were (and still are) underdogs. Free speech is one of the things that favours underdogs, and is not easily openly attacked.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#248

Post by tod222 » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:48 PM UTC

altrego99 wrote: post #169

tptacek wrote: post #130

Some quick thoughts, as the parent of a high school freshman: * If you anticipate your child being assigned 3 hours of homework in a typical evening, it is negligent to allow them to start that work at 8:00PM. Instead of allowing his daughter to watch episodes of Portlandia on her computer all afternoon, he could consider a rule suggesting homework gets completed before electronic entertainment; that's our rule this…

* Kids should not be penalized for knowing which is the capital of what, nor which part of Americas grows the most bananas. It is useless information unless the kid loves that kind of stuff. * Focus should not be on memorizing anything, unless they are a building block of something which they will understand later, and better, with the memorization. May be the Spanish language verb forms are one of those, I'm not sur…

> as opposed to the Captain Kirk types?

What do you mean by "Captain Kirk type"?

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#249

Post by emerongi » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #175

tptacek wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am way, way, WAY more concerned about the ethics my kid learns than I am about whether he gets a B or an A in World History.

Agreed. Though I wasn't saying I cheated to get my grades or that they were artificially inflated, just that I avoided homework. In my school your homework grades never counted towards you actual grades, and if your homework wasn't going to teach you something, what is the point?

I just didn't do the "dumb" homework. Physics and math and such were interesting to me, so I was happy to do those.

I laughed so much at your comment, cause I used the same techniques.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#250

Post by loup-vaillant » Fri, Sep 20, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #246

loup-vaillant wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's what's happen when we focus on memorization: I suspect the most dangerous habit of thought taught in schools is that even if you don't really understand something, you should parrot it back anyway. http://lesswrong.com/lw/i2/two_more_things_to_unlearn_from_s... Which more or less directly leads to http://lesswrong.com/lw/iq/guessing_the_teachers_password/ With such a method what will be permanently seared into…

My point is there's a very valuable window at that age to permanently learn things. The window should be used to, for example, learn a ton of vocabulary in a foreign language. Or learn a bunch of arithmetic tables by heart, so you can do mental arithmetic without even thinking hard. To waste the window is silly. Learning such things as I mentioned isn't "parroting."

I agree. I am thankful for my dull, rote learning of multiplication tables.

I do maintain my reservation above however. Currently, schools are doing way too much rote learning, and do not teach the fundamentals of good thinking.