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Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

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Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#11

Post by DominikR »

Back in the days, I spent an enormous amount of time playing Warcraft III competetively, and was somewhere in the top 100 globally.

There are definitely things that I have learned back then while playing RTS games:

- how to hold a team (clan) together and generally work as a team

- training a _lot_ and working hard on myself

- learning from my own failures (and analyzing my own replays), because in a 1vs1 situation it was always me that fucked up when I lost. I could never explain or rationalize that away.

- dealing with stressful situations and as ridiculous as it may sound, overcoming fears by using builds (changing strategies) I am not comfortable or confident with when all other plans failed.

But I wouldn't go as far as saying that RTS games make you a smarter person. It's always a question of determination and willingness to work hard, as it is in any other field where you choose to work in.

One factor in RTS games that might help facilitate determination is infrastructure.

In RTS games you have the infrastructure to compete with eachother on equal terms, which you simply can't do in many other fields you might be interested in as a kid because of barriers that prevent you from entering.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#12

Post by DominikR »

aspensmonster wrote: post #8
gabemart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

That's the type of experience that is a big turn off for me in games as well. People spend so much time studying the mechanics and economics of the game that eventually, pretty much every match plays out in exactly the same form. For RTS games, the build trees often get set in stone. Deviate from the one feasible tree and you might as well just be giving up because after a few minutes your opponent has just enough un…

There are hundreds of builds you could go that work in certain situations.

And then there are builds that usually don't work in a situation, but some people can use it because of their superior micromanagement or macro.

What you probably mean is the metagame - that definitely exists and constantly changes, but in a best of 3/5/7 setup you'll usually see players use multiple builds, either as a reaction to the build the opponent used in the last game, or due to the map you are playing on and sometimes just to try catching the opponent off guard by doing something unexpected

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#13

Post by daemonk »

I don't doubt that playing Starcraft will build mental abilities. But if someone is playing Starcraft to become smarter, then they should probably think about other activities that will give you the same benefits in a faster and more domain relevant way.

It's a great game. I love watching it. And I support professional players because they provide a source of entertainment. But it's not anything more than that.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#14

Post by sireat »

gabemart wrote: post #5
ninjin wrote: post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

I have had a very similar experience as well.

I've enjoyed watching high level SC2 in GSL for some 3 years and often get the urge to try playing myself but am forced to remind myself how horrible my mechanics are and that no amount of deliberate practice would fix that.

I enjoy and have a reasonable handle on the strategic side and could handle keyboard as a decent typist but the ability to handle the mouse with such focus is something that I am simply unable to do. Let's not even mention that I am almost 40.

Instead, I settle for some quick games of chess something that I can do reasonably well as a master and which does not require 100+ APM (even in 1minute chess).

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#15

Post by kybernetyk »

gabemart wrote: post #5
ninjin wrote: post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

> I chose the latter.

The same for me. I love watching SC2 games - but playing myself? Nah, I'm a sucker even at bronze levels.

The time investment (and the stress) needed to get even remotely competitive in the bronze ladders is just too much for me.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#16

Post by Zariel »

kybernetyk wrote: post #15
gabemart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

> I chose the latter. The same for me. I love watching SC2 games - but playing myself? Nah, I'm a sucker even at bronze levels. The time investment (and the stress) needed to get even remotely competitive in the bronze ladders is just too much for me.

Its not really much different to other hobbies if your efficient at learning and improving. If you play a few games and then just stop then you wont improve much at all. But if you go back and analyse your play and your decisions at each point in the game you can quickly improve. And most parts of SC2 can be broken down into small parts which can be practiced with repetition, for instance practicing your build order for the first 3 minutes so you can do it without thinking if a huge benefit.

Ive found it not much different to learning guitar to be honest, or any other competitive game like Dota.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#17

Post by jules »

sireat wrote: post #14
gabemart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

I have had a very similar experience as well. I've enjoyed watching high level SC2 in GSL for some 3 years and often get the urge to try playing myself but am forced to remind myself how horrible my mechanics are and that no amount of deliberate practice would fix that. I enjoy and have a reasonable handle on the strategic side and could handle keyboard as a decent typist but the ability to handle the mouse with such…

You should check out the game Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance. It's currently a community driven game, and you can download the multiplayer client at http://www.faforever.com/

In this game strategy is much more important than APM. Some of the top players have less than 60 APM, whereas in Starcraft they have 300. Some of this is due to the community being smaller hence the overall competitiveness being lower, but it's also the nature of the game. The interface is optimized for letting you do as much as possible in a few clicks, unlike Starcraft where you have to micromanage everything. In a way Supreme Commander is like continuous time chess. You win by wit rather than who clicks faster. Like chess you have a king that you need to protect and to win you have to kill the enemy's king.

Here is a video commentary of a (very long) 4v4 game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg_z-pIcUJo

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#18

Post by GFischer »

Zariel wrote: post #16
kybernetyk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I chose the latter. The same for me. I love watching SC2 games - but playing myself? Nah, I'm a sucker even at bronze levels. The time investment (and the stress) needed to get even remotely competitive in the bronze ladders is just too much for me.

Its not really much different to other hobbies if your efficient at learning and improving. If you play a few games and then just stop then you wont improve much at all. But if you go back and analyse your play and your decisions at each point in the game you can quickly improve. And most parts of SC2 can be broken down into small parts which can be practiced with repetition, for instance practicing your build order…

Team games like Dota or League of Legends add another problem:

I wouldn't worry that much if I get trashed individually, but when you're a part of a (randomly selected) team and you drag them down, I really get stressed. I worry to the point I haven't played a ranked game yet(I play LOL) , even though I reached Level 30 months ago.

I'm sure there are some groups of casual players that don't mind having a mediocre player (to play in matchmade groups), but I haven't found them yet.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#19

Post by nickik »

aspensmonster wrote: post #8
gabemart wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly my experience. I occasionally watch big tournaments and a couple of years ago decided to have a go myself. When I was growing up I played a lot of Westwood RTS games so I thought I'd be able to get to a level of basic competency fairly quickly. I was completely wrong. That game is killer, stressful and mentally exhausting (for me). It became clear to me that either I could make SC2 my full-time pursuit…

That's the type of experience that is a big turn off for me in games as well. People spend so much time studying the mechanics and economics of the game that eventually, pretty much every match plays out in exactly the same form. For RTS games, the build trees often get set in stone. Deviate from the one feasible tree and you might as well just be giving up because after a few minutes your opponent has just enough un…

You could say that for every sport. If anything your avg. Star Craft game is suprising more often then your avg. football or whatever game.

So often you see players doing something strang, and quite often, if you look at Star Craft 1, one change in startagy by one person has huge impact on that matchup. So your avg. match changes a lot, end even if you are in a time where games play out simularly quite often, good players use that and trie to win doing something diffrent.

Re: Playing Starcraft 2 Might Make You Smarter

#20

Post by bayesianhorse »

ninjin wrote: post #3

I will be the first one to admit it, I do occasionally play games as a means to relaxation and I bought StarCraft 2 yesterday. Long story short, playing against other human players on ladder is among the most stressful things I have experienced in a long time. There are thousands of things that can go wrong, am I about to run out of supply? Are all my production facilities currently being utilised? Are there enough w…

I completely disagree. Playing ladder in Starcraft 2 can be stressful. But that's actually part of the positive effect. You can use it as a learning exercise for keeping your emotions in control, keeping focus in a game, taking a loss in 50% of games, some of these losses being very embarassing.

This game seems to elicit an emotional response in me that is the closest I usually get to "conflict" or "fight/flight".

I am about Bronze/Silver, and I don't play for more than half an hour per day on average.

Playing this game has something similar to most sports, arts, and professions: You have to work at it to get better, but without having a snowball's chance in hell of making it to the top of the ladder.

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