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My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

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Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#31

Post by ygra »

I don't recall similar homework loads (Germany, school being 10–20 years ago), but that might be due to laziness on my part or simply the fact that it wasn't a good time for me anyway. By the later grades (11th and onwards) it definitely wasn't as much.

I liked what our math teacher said regarding his homework: It's for practice and not strictly needed and thus voluntary. If we feel confident doing the homework ad-hoc on the blackboard in class then we don't need to do it at home. While this won't work for every class (e.g. I guess languages don't really work that way), it was definitely nicer than having to unconditionally do the homework (as well as all the rest).

> I’ve often suspected that teachers don’t have any idea about the > cumulative amount of homework the kids are assigned when > they are taking five academic classes. There is little to no > coordination among teachers in most schools when it comes > to assignments and test dates.

This is something my mother (a teacher) can confirm as well. Many teachers just assume that they're the only ones giving homework and thus don't really see why it can be so much. That was a problem in uni as well sometimes in the earlier years (and anecdotally the norm by now that we have the Bachelor/Master system, depending on your major).

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#32

Post by EvanAnderson »

tudorw wrote: post #26

Six and a half hours sleep, this is way too low, Millpond Children’s Sleep Clinic recommends over nine for a 13yr old. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Childrenssleep/Pages/howmuchsleep...

This is what jumped out at me, too. There are studies linking obesity, poor school performance, and problems with emotional control (just to name a few) to lack of sleep in children. Having to stay up late to do homework seems counterproductive.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#33

Post by Afforess »

haldujai wrote: post #8

The mode of homework time appears to be 3 hours a night during weekdays, this is considered unbearable/a lot? Growing up this was the norm for me. The school in question runs from 8:00 AM to 2:20 PM with a 45 minute lunch break, recesses and homeroom included. With 3 hours of studying that brings you to a total of 9 hours - breaks (I couldn't find a schedule). Assuming 8 hours of sleep, 1 hour for dinner, 2 hours of…

Yes. I reached college with 24 AP credits and a 31 ACT (never touched the SAT) 5 years ago and I did barely any homework (~1hr/week total). Instead I played a lot of video games, and when I was 17 taught myself how to program C++ to mod Civ4. I could never have learned programming had I not had tons of free time.

Homework is evil because it's a massive opportunity cost in terms of time.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#34

Post by anigbrowl »

rtpg wrote: post #27
vacri wrote: post #24

There are some concepts at odds here. "The measurements included numbers like 78 13/64, and all this multiplying and dividing was to be done without a calculator." is not 'rote learning'/'memorisation without rationalisation'. It's directly exercising an ability. I've had a university-level experience reach for her calculator to multiply 0.2 by 3, and when I forbade her from using it, she just stared dumbly at me. Th…

I spent a lot of time up until high school forcing myself not to use a calculator, because I wanted to work on my mental skills in arithmetic, but I always make a lot of small mistakes, even now. I have a hard enough time concentrating on 'easy' things , please don't ask me to hold numbers in my brain. I am a pretty "mathy" person but mental multiplication is not meant for the human thought process, too much is going…

I have a hard enough time concentrating on 'easy' things , please don't ask me to hold numbers in my brain. I am a pretty "mathy" person but mental multiplication is not meant for the human thought process, too much is going on.

That's like saying humans were never meant to run up stairs so you're taking the elevator. In any case, nobody's asking yo to hold numbers in your brain; it's OK to use paper and pencil for your calculations, as generation after generation of mathematicians did.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#35

Post by vacri »

rtpg wrote: post #27
vacri wrote: post #24

There are some concepts at odds here. "The measurements included numbers like 78 13/64, and all this multiplying and dividing was to be done without a calculator." is not 'rote learning'/'memorisation without rationalisation'. It's directly exercising an ability. I've had a university-level experience reach for her calculator to multiply 0.2 by 3, and when I forbade her from using it, she just stared dumbly at me. Th…

I spent a lot of time up until high school forcing myself not to use a calculator, because I wanted to work on my mental skills in arithmetic, but I always make a lot of small mistakes, even now. I have a hard enough time concentrating on 'easy' things , please don't ask me to hold numbers in my brain. I am a pretty "mathy" person but mental multiplication is not meant for the human thought process, too much is going…

To be fair, I don't hold her to be the slightest bit representative, it's just that such a simple mathematical process is just... automatic. I'm not mathy at all - I've abandoned several online crypto intro courses because I can't follow at a reasonable speed when the notation comes out - but when it comes to manipulating single-digit numbers?

In her case it was significantly affected by her lack of motivation, but it was just plain odd that such a trivial thing wasn't 'automatic' for someone in a science course (the actual question was calculating V=IR). I had to simplify it with "Well, what's 2x3?", and then, 'given the answer', she could continue.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#36

Post by Afforess »

anigbrowl wrote: post #30

So much whining. These tasks represent actual problems you might be tasked with finding out in the real world; not all of them are directly relevant to students or their utility immediately apparent, but the mothodologies are solid. Growing up in Ireland and going to high school int he 80s, I was doing 3-4 hours/night of homework from the equivalent of your grade 7, and I still found time to watch TV and read for ple…

You clearly are very isolated from the world. Even if the author had a good math experience, polynomials do not appear in everyday problems.

As for the start time, likely she is involved in extra-curricular activities, like cheerleading or sports.

I wouldn't judge so harshly.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#37

Post by neltnerb »

rtpg wrote: post #27
vacri wrote: post #24

There are some concepts at odds here. "The measurements included numbers like 78 13/64, and all this multiplying and dividing was to be done without a calculator." is not 'rote learning'/'memorisation without rationalisation'. It's directly exercising an ability. I've had a university-level experience reach for her calculator to multiply 0.2 by 3, and when I forbade her from using it, she just stared dumbly at me. Th…

I spent a lot of time up until high school forcing myself not to use a calculator, because I wanted to work on my mental skills in arithmetic, but I always make a lot of small mistakes, even now. I have a hard enough time concentrating on 'easy' things , please don't ask me to hold numbers in my brain. I am a pretty "mathy" person but mental multiplication is not meant for the human thought process, too much is going…

I think a good part of the problem is that we learn to multiply and divide backwards. The standard US algorithm involves starting at the least significant digit and working your way up. It is much easier to do in your head if you do it from the most significant digit down. Or learn to convert hard multiplications into easy ones, for instance:

9x27 = 10x27-27 = 243

The other way to do this would be to multiply 9x7 to get 63, and then hold that in your head while you multiply 9x2 to get 18, add a zero to get 180, and then recall the 63 to add to 180.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgw9Ik5ZGaY

Basically, to do MSB multiplication it looks like:

27x16 = 27x10 + 20x6 + 7x6 = 270+120+42 = 432

We can do accumulators much more easily from big numbers and then adjusting with small corrections than we can the reverse.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#38

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

Wow. Everyone in the thread seems to have gotten lots of homework in their youth. In my case, I went to both a private and a public school (in Spain) and the homework load was probably like half an hour a day, in both cases. In high school it was a bit more, maybe 45 minutes, the main difference was that in high school studying the day before the exam was usually not enough.

I remember that my mother used to be worried that I would have problems at university, because there I would have to work a lot of hours per day, and I wasn't getting used to that at school. Well, I did have to work a lot of hours per day at university, but I did perfectly fine. And I'm grateful that I had time during my school and high school years to write stories, make drawings, learn C and C++, write games, compose some music, etc... unlike the poor girl in the article!

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#39

Post by Afforess »

tudorw wrote: post #26

Six and a half hours sleep, this is way too low, Millpond Children’s Sleep Clinic recommends over nine for a 13yr old. http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Childrenssleep/Pages/howmuchsleep...

I once asked a vice principal (way back, 10 yrs ago) why schools started so early when lack of sleep was known to be bad. He said it was so there was time for sports in the evening. If you started at 10 or 11 school would run until 6 and it would start getting dark.

Sports are why kids sleep is ruined.

Re: My Daughter’s Homework Is Killing Me

#40

Post by mcphilip »

I was homeschooled K-12. My days consisted largely of 1-2 hours of bible study with my 3 brothers followed by a few hours on my own working through a set number of pages in math, science, literature, etc textbooks. I'd usually get done by 2 and then play Nintendo until friends got home from school.

I was never tested in homeschool. There were no grades or report cards. The only accountability was mom checking that the assignments were done. My first real test was the PSAT. As part of applying to college, my mom had to make up high school grades for the transcript.

I scored decently on the SAT and got accepted into a university. College was relatively a breeze since I had spent all my grade school years teaching things to myself - college was just an extension of this method of learning.

While there are plenty of good arguments against homeschooling, I feel lucky to have been brought up in an environment where education did not have a competitive aspect requiring 8-12 hours of work a day.

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