Are you looking to make this run well on mobile too? There are 2 main advantages of web over native games. The first is being able to quickly jump in and play with a friend. The second is being cross platform including all mobile devices. These 2 reasons are why I'm building my multiplayer tower defense game http://www.towerstorm.com in javascript. I'd be interested in trying out your engine if you're looking to make…
I'm also building a javascript game (I'm using canvas and 2d images). All the comments here are freaking me out a bit. They all keep saying that html5 games are too slow. My game has many significant features done and it seems to run fine. But I'm using tiny sprites, very few animation frames and probably 10% of the artwork I intend on having in the end. How's your experience with your game? Is it really slow or does…
Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
121–130 of 151 posts
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I saw better native demos 10 years ago, and those just worked. Agreed. But you're missing the point. In those 10 years those of us who played in the native universe will not be the target market any more. Just like we listeners of Pink Floyd and Metallica aren't the target buyers of Justin Biebers and Lady Gagas of the day. The latter are as successful, immersive and relevant to those who matter. > JavaScript, DOM,…
>Now this is an opinion based on the current_level_of_performance (which I agree is not at the expected level.). But it's not a great way to judge what the future could hold. Native will always fundamentally beat non-native, that's a plain fact.
In quality, perhaps. In sales, profit and market share, I'm not so sure.
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is what consoles are for.
No, it's really not. This is what consoles are trying to become, but they're also a long way off. They're also expensive, dedicated machines. Even assuming this IS what console are for, why in the world are you going to complain about more competition in the market for a good way to distribute games?
Fixed set of hardware, that the developers could easily target and build their skills.
For the gamers, just put the cartridge or disc, and start playing.
No need for driver updates, or whatever else might be required.
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
We may be seeing the same HTML5 demos on HN, but we're living in two different universes. In my world, I always open up these demos in a browser that's incompatible. If I do manage to get them working, my reaction is always like wow, I saw better native demos 10 years ago, and those just worked. Let's be honest. JavaScript, DOM, and CSS are terrible technologies to base any gaming system off of. As a gamer, performan…
It's easy to talk trash on a technology that is in its infancy. Wait... WebGL games are still not as good as game engines that have been developed for 20 years? SHOCKER. The technology is only going to get better. The whole point of these demo's is to show what is possible even now when the specs aren't finalized and the technology is barely adopted. Give it 3-5 years and I would be willing to bet you'll need to eat…
- html5 games are defacto multiplatforms, since tbey must support all the popular browsers, and underlying systems (mobiles, tablets, PCs...). Compare this with the Wintel supremacy of early RTS days,
- This is technology preview material, available to a potentially very large audience. I don't think RTS did get such exposure during their development, especially during the eary days, when people wanted to disclose as little as possible to the listening competition in the gaming news channels (nainly magazines).
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#125Wow! This is mesmerizing. These posts on HTML5 stuff that pop-up on HN from time to time hint on what is to come on the web in the near term. I think HTML5 is a huge Tsunami gathering energy and steam out there! It will and should beat all these "I-am-the-best" closed systems (already does in some areas) sometime soon, and be on the top. System agnostic, immersive, inclusive, what not. Love it.
>System agnostic, immersive, inclusive, what not. Love it. Yay! Let's cheerlead the democritisation (read: degeneration ) of computer programming! The "open", democratic people got everything wrong, which is why the browser has such a laughable hodge podge of features. Hooray for people who took web programming instead of OS design at college. WOOO!
I think you meant democratisation, or was there some subtle reference to a [famous greek philosopher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demokritos)?
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure I'd that path-finding and maintaining sync are hard problems, especially since they are problems that in an RTS aren't quite as sensitive to latency.
Ask anyone who's ever worked on an RTS and they'd disagree with you. It's not even difficult to find evidence to support them being tough problems by googling it: https://www.google.com/search?q=rts+pathfinding Lots of people asking for solutions, lots of different solutions, lots of caveats.
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I saw better native demos 10 years ago, and those just worked. Agreed. But you're missing the point. In those 10 years those of us who played in the native universe will not be the target market any more. Just like we listeners of Pink Floyd and Metallica aren't the target buyers of Justin Biebers and Lady Gagas of the day. The latter are as successful, immersive and relevant to those who matter. > JavaScript, DOM,…
>Now this is an opinion based on the current_level_of_performance (which I agree is not at the expected level.). But it's not a great way to judge what the future could hold. Native will always fundamentally beat non-native, that's a plain fact.
Consider the barriers to browser performance:
Hardware acceleration - already there with WebGL and for video codecs The JS language - this can be swapped out for something more performant - various options exist but it will take time and a brave vendor to do so. Rendering speed of HTML etc - this can be improved, both by simplifying things like the box model and by improving the renderer, we've already made huge strides int this area for standard UIs.
These are solvable problems - eventually web properties could easily be compiled (in a sandboxed language or VM), and become native. I don't think there's necessarily a difference between a sandboxed process in a browser VM, and a sandboxed process on the desktop. Just because browsers are still developing and in the past have not been performant in comparison to native APIs, doesn't mean things always have to be that way. So while the present performance comparison of native to HTML means native wins (as long as you don't just do everything in webgl say), things don't have to stay that way.
The greatest strength of the web platform is that it is simple, open, and extensible. This also makes it a bit of a mess of competing standards and leads to a problem with legacy cruft (like the reliance on JS), but it has held up remarkably well, and has proven flexible, simple and incredibly popular. It's difficult to charge people money for content on the web, but not impossible and that's more to do with culture than technical challenges. It's also difficult to lock people in on the web - that's something people hate about native which isn't going away.
Eventually I expect the internet, and the web in particular, will reduce operating systems to a badly debugged set of device drivers (Andreessen was prophetic in that regard), and operating systems will be replaced as a concept and become simply the interface to hardware, which implements some standard APIs for the web and acts as a container for the VM which runs the code. We're not far from that situation already, and it is preferable for consumers and creators/developers. The only thing standing in its way are the vendors of large ecosystems (hardware and software) like Google, Apple, MS and Amazon, who have a vested interest in corralling and controlling their customers and keeping them inside an area where they set the rules and can take a cut on every transaction.
I'd argue the resurgence of native mobile platforms is the last hurrah of native, and simply another attempt to lock people into an ecosystem controlled by one company, it will fail as people start to realise their loyalty to say Apple is not rewarded. We'll probably see these companies grudgingly adopt the web, while still trying to corral their customers (it's what companies do when they get to a certain scale), but on the web that is much harder to do, because it's an open API, controlled by no-one.
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The same benefit the web apps generally bring: * The ability to play the game without installing anything * The ability to play the game on other peoples computers * Cross-platform accessibility (Windows, OSX, Linux? Doesn't matter.)
* The ability to play the game without installing anything Obviously you haven't played any HTML5 games. They all make you wait to download game data. And if the Internet gods have been good to you, it won't be cleared from your localstorage next time you start it up. Steam is far better. * The ability to play the game on other peoples computers So can Steam. * Cross-platform accessibility (Windows, OSX, Linux? Doesn…
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's work going on for better app caching systems at the browser level. This is a UI and platform issue, but there's no tricky technical aspects. The user expresses the intent of wanting to cache a web app, and it is cached locally.
"The user expresses the intent of wanting to cache a web app, and it is cached locally." So I will use [x] to find a game in [y] and then [z] it to play. Where: x = {Chrome|Firefox|Steam}, y = {some-sort-of-web-app-store|Steam store}, z = {cache|install}. I guess the success will depend on how easy and rich x-y-z experiences are, but you will still have to register, pay and download.
That's the advantage of the web over native APIs, and why I think its ethos will eventually win out - it is better for developers and users, but not for the corporations who would like to sit between the two as intermediaries.
Re: Artillery is building a hardcore RTS with HTML5 and WebGL
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
The bad thing is that there will be no technology competition. Just HTML and JS for everything? Boring...
JavaScript is no longer the only language. I wouldn't be surprised if JavaScript is used at all for large projects in the future. With things like Dart, TypeScript, CoffeeScript, and asm.js JavaScript is becoming more of a compile target.
I expect that to happen sooner rather than later, it is not an impossible problem, and it is far preferable to trying to use JS as a compile target.