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A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

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Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#31
post #5

What's most important these days is the data was cleaned first, and was proactively given out to police which was used indirectly to ward off future crime. All it took was police presence. They didn't need to indiscriminately take patient records out of their backend systems or monitor the hospitals networks and reverse engineer http and packets. They didn't need to target individuals who are repeat offenders or viol…

Don't forget that this is in the UK, so in addition to the things mentioned above there are quite likely a ton of CCTV cameras that could be utilised better. Or based on the hospital data new ones could be installed as deterrents.

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#32

Better idea - save the data to a server, make an API (free), and let engineershelp visualize where the violence is occuring / predict where it will occur based on date/time

So, basically, you want someone else to do all the legwork and give you access to their data for free. Cool, we'll get right on that.

by leg work, you mean saving this 'shared information' to a database ? - ya get on it

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#33

Better idea - save the data to a server, make an API (free), and let engineershelp visualize where the violence is occuring / predict where it will occur based on date/time

So, basically, you want someone else to do all the legwork and give you access to their data for free. Cool, we'll get right on that.

also - "their data" is public information anyways (or at least should be) - is basic crime statistics

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#34
So the hospital started sharing its information with the police, after removing names and other identifying information.

Strange, I thought they were obligated to call the cops when someone with obvious such injuries went to the hospital. You know, if you have a black eye, broken nose and a stab wound, "I fell from the stairs" probably not gonna do it.

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#35

So the hospital started sharing its information with the police, after removing names and other identifying information. Strange, I thought they were obligated to call the cops when someone with obvious such injuries went to the hospital. You know, if you have a black eye, broken nose and a stab wound, "I fell from the stairs" probably not gonna do it.

Laws don't mandate this like they do for gunshot wounds. Doctors do have discretion, and if they feel that there is a danger to the public (i.e. a nutjob stabbing people) they are legally able to report it (it wouldn't be a HIPAA violation).

That said, due to the litigious nature of the US some patients are still likely to sue and/or generate bad press. While it's unlikely that a court would find the doctor/hospital guilty of any HIPAA violations it's a giant headache the hospital and their lawyers don't want to deal with.

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#36
post #6

How long are you able to report a crime after the fact? I remember being hit by a car on my bike (a famously under-reported incident), but both myself and my girlfriend physically/emotionally were in rough shape all day. We forgot to report it, then it ended up slipping out of our minds. This is a challenging problem to solve with technology, similar to getting patients to take their daily medication on time.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This information may be US-specific.

AFAIK you can file a police report at any time. Whether your report leads to any results is probably negatively correlated with how long you wait to file it, but you can't be sure it won't until you actually report it.

However, many crimes (especially more minor ones) have a statute of limitations, where the crime can't be prosecuted after a certain amount of time.

And older investigations are harder -- a witness in a house adjacent to the crime scene may have remembered hearing a crunch followed by a car speeding away at the time of the accident if interviewed the following day or week, but may have utterly forgotten, or moved away and be impossible to locate, or have become unable to testify due to developing mental incapacity or becoming deceased, if the day in question was months, years, or decades ago. Likewise, the next day there might be tire marks, bike parts, or other physical evidence at the crime scene, but after months or years it will have deteriorated or totally disappeared.

Also police surely know that older investigations are harder, so in addition to the problems with the evidence itself, having an older case you might not be assigned as many police resources because they know there's a lower probability of success, and it's their duty to taxpayers to use their limited number of detectives, etc. on the cases they have the best likelihood of solving, so those taxpayer dollars are used most efficiently.

But this doesn't mean you shouldn't report it. You don't know exactly how your crime will be classified (assault? traffic offense? attempted homicide?), so you don't know what the statute of limitations actually is.

It might be that your report provides the missing piece of a puzzle -- there might be a cold case file in the police station saying, "A local mechanic noticed a car brought in for repairs had bike parts embedded in the grille and blood on the tires, the license and owner information was entered in the case file, and we're pretty sure we know who was driving. But no hit-and-runs had been reported recently, we know a jury won't convict without an identifiable victim, and the investigation was closed due to reaching a dead end."

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically, you want someone else to do all the legwork and give you access to their data for free. Cool, we'll get right on that.

by leg work, you mean saving this 'shared information' to a database ? - ya get on it

It's so easy to dismiss considerable amounts of work as trivial when you don't have to do it, isn't it?

Yes doctor, you just hit the "save to SQL database" right here on your plastic clipboard...

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically, you want someone else to do all the legwork and give you access to their data for free. Cool, we'll get right on that.

also - "their data" is public information anyways (or at least should be) - is basic crime statistics

I'm not claiming it's secret information that they own. But this is like the FOIA. Some smartass comes along, hears about FOIA, and declares "Well they should just digitize the entire archive, make it available in a queriable SQL database, and be done with it". The problem is, while the public has a right to the information, the representation, the storage of that data has issues. Digitizing millions of pages of records is not an afternoon's work (triply so if you want OCR). The reason we don't have such a database is not because John Spook is too lazy to spend thirty minutes doing it.

When you put hundreds of thousands of man-hours into digitizing an archive, there's essentially a cost/value-add. If there wasn't a value-add, why would you want this hypothetical database anyway? The crime information is public, why don't you just go compile it yourself!

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#39
post #7
post #5

What's most important these days is the data was cleaned first, and was proactively given out to police which was used indirectly to ward off future crime. All it took was police presence. They didn't need to indiscriminately take patient records out of their backend systems or monitor the hospitals networks and reverse engineer http and packets. They didn't need to target individuals who are repeat offenders or viol…

When crime drops, police can get laid off.

Does that ever actually happen?

Re: A Hospital Tells Police Where Fights Happen, And Crime Drops

#40
post #10

This is interesting. Hospitals in Austria are actually required by law to report such incidents as far as I know. The same is true for results of domestic violence.

You are right, if you go to a hospital in Austria with certain wounds, police has to come and question you.

They wont force you to report, but they will definitely try to convince you to tell them where you got the wound from.

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