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I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

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Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#171

Post by jessedhillon »

roc wrote: post #151
potatolicious wrote: post #7

Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it. Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him! It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context,…

Given the most core of the criticisms of hipsterism are its judgementalism and superiority complex, your argument seems to be tantamount to decrying the bullying of bullies, or the lack of tolerance for the intolerant.

Is that really the core criticism of hipsterdom? I hear much more often the appropriation of poor/outsider chic and concordance devaluation of intrinsic meaning. Consider the kiffeyeh (plaid arabesque scarf) worn originally to signal solidarity with Palestinians. Now the overriding significance of it, when you see it worn (it's a little dated now) is that of an empty fashion trend.

Another common critique I hear is the mindless pursuit of "authenticity", an aping of anything whose style is "old" -- the automatic assumption that old is authentic, and authentic is better. These are, in my mind, two core branches of an otherwise very difficult to define notion.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#172

Post by roc »

mikestew wrote: post #71
potatolicious wrote: post #7

Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it. Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him! It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context,…

"it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it." My theory has been that the downtrodden are pissed because they're on the receiving end, not because it's wrong, evidenced by many examples of them engaging in the same behavior when the opportunity presents itself. Whether it's immigrant minorities or geeks/nerds, the pattern…

It's simpler (and more universal) than that: tribal identity is based on ascribing virtues to the tribe -- and vices to others -- based not on objective reality but based on their own values.

"We do the things that we perceive as good for reasons we perceive as good. They do the things that we perceive as bad for reasons that we perceive as bad."

And the teasing/bullying of members of other tribes is just a core human behavior to reinforce status within their own tribe. "Look at how well I recognize what's wrong with them! I'm a good one of us!"

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#173

Post by [deleted] »

aninhumer wrote: post #159
jonnathanson wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Above all other things, internet communities is what makes me cynical about humanity." The internet is like alcohol: it doesn't put ideas into people's heads. It just lowers their inhibitions. If people are being dicks on the internet, it's because they are dicks , and the internet gives them a relatively consequence-free forum for expressing their dickitude. If we're "cynical about humanity" because of "internet co…

>it doesn't put ideas into people's heads. I'm going to assume this statement was meant as a rhetorical device, because on its own it's clearly ridiculous. Of course the internet puts ideas into people's heads. More generally, while I understand the point you're making, I think you're underestimating the influence of a community on the behaviour of its members. I would say that by far the most significant factor caus…

[deleted]

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#174

Post by derefr »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #166
derefr wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting how the word "hipster" has morphed in usage over the last five-or-so years. Originally, as far as I could tell, it had a specific meaning: "someone who prefers unknown bands just for their being unknown, and dislikes well-known bands just for their being well-known." This, obviously, is a person to not hold in high regard--their mannerism, after all, is entirely defined by contempt for the major…

Has it really changed that way? As far as I'm aware it still carries the requirement they the person defines themselves via contrarianism and contempt; that image is just a big blinking warning sign.

I'm pretty sure there's a large contingent of people who self-identify as hipsters--in that they dress like them, enjoy bands hipsters used to like at some defining moment ca. 2006, etc.--but enjoy mainstream culture otherwise.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#175

Post by brownBananas »

corresation wrote: post #61
potatolicious wrote: post #7

Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it. Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him! It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context,…

Reddit is visited by tens of millions of people of virtually every demographic. Corralling them as "internet nerds" seems a bit like you're trying for some bullying yourself. In any case, talk about much ado about absolutely nothing. A bunch of people said silly things, largely under the assumption that it was no consequence (that no one was hurt, etc): In many ways the comments on there are performance art. It is th…

People declaring their cynicism about humanity (or trite variations like "faith restored") make me cynical about humanity.

This is very intriguing. Although I have some idea of what you mean, I would love it if you could elaborate on this.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#176

Post by smsm42 »

eshvk wrote: post #84
blhack wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really common, unfortunately. People who are raised being abused, or being excluded, are taught that those in power should abuse or exclude those not in power.

Naipaul wrote about this when he was talking about post-colonial societies that ended up as brutal as the white man they replaced. "Hate oppression but fear the oppressed."

Just because some people are oppressed, it doesn't mean they are all nice and pleasant otherwise. "Noble savage" is a western invention, but many undeveloped (from out POV) societies are brutal, violent and harsh without any external influence, just by themselves. Being brutal is natural, being nice comes later.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#177

Post by drcode »

gknoy wrote: post #146
drcode wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the issue for me is that there is a cachet in our society for successful artists- That's why so many people want to try art, because art is "cool". But the reason art is cool is PRECISELY BECAUSE artists have to take risks and stick their necks out and have to be able to take the heat if their art gets a bad reception. It seems to me OP wanted the cachet of doing art, but doesn't want to accept the risk that…

He expected to be criticized for what he saw was the performace: writing stories. He did NOT expect to have his "Hey I'll type anything for you" sign completely hidden, and therefore the pictures about him to be taken completely out of context. In real life, you can see something like that, and then walk around until you see the sign and have better context, and be less dismissive or confused. When all you have is a…

Oh I see, you're saying that he was an artist who's art was MISUNDERSTOOD! Well, that changes everything: In other cases, people understand 100% what artists are trying to do. No performance artist in their right mind can be expected to take into account that others might misunderstand his/her performance.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#179

Post by yareally »

sequoia wrote: post #154
Dylan16807 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they actually enjoy what they're doing, and not the feeling of being 'counterculture', then they're not being "hipsters". It's pretty simple.

Do you think they're doing it (playing Go, listening to vinyl, whatever) despite not enjoying it? That seems a weird, self-sacrificing thing to do.

They drink PBR, I think that says enough about self-sacrificing if one has any tastebuds left.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#180

Post by Dylan16807 »

EvanKelly wrote: post #164
Dylan16807 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they actually enjoy what they're doing, and not the feeling of being 'counterculture', then they're not being "hipsters". It's pretty simple.

What's wrong with enjoying the feeling of being counterculture? This whole anti-hipster sentiment is so bizarre to me. It's all about policing other peoples' fashion/taste/activities without reason. The idea that hipsters are somehow not genuine doesn't make any sense. What is there to be genuine to ? If you use an old film camera because you like the photos it takes and are fascinated by how it operates, more power…

>What's wrong with enjoying the feeling of being counterculture?

In terms of a stereotypical hipster, it's because it's being smug that you're not following the crowd. But you get there by paying a lot of attention to what the crowd likes, and using that as your primary decision maker. AKA you're following the crowd.

It's okay to like being unique, but find a niche though your own preferences, not though hypocritical reasoning.

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