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Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

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Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#91

Post by sillysaurus2 »

jbackus wrote: post #89
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your s…

> So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. > Employees get to feel proud they've lite…

No one is forcing anyone to be a game developer.

That's a fine-sounding statement but in reality if you want to be a game developer in the US then you'd better be willing to live a life where you wake up, go to work, get home sometime later than 8pm, spend ~2 hours unwinding and maybe visiting with your SO, and then go to bed. Repeat forever. A lot of times even on weekends. The studios I worked for all made it regular habit to make pizza available in the evening and then refuse to allow devs to leave. Crunch time became a way of life. Anyone who dared not to like it risked ostracism. Those who were fired for it severely harmed their career prospects, precisely because every other employer has the exact same culture of insanity.

Put that way, it's more than a little bleak. If I sound outraged, it's because it's outrageous that it somehow became the norm in the US and that nobody bats an eye because "that's just the way it is."

It's not about fair or unfair. I'm not saying anyone should force the companies to change. I'm saying the companies had better change themselves before the nice little train of momentum they've built up from legions of starry-eyed young developers finally runs out when those developers realize they could be going off and starting their own companies rather than playing by your rules.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#92

Post by sspiff »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #85
antihero wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you entirely missed the point?

It is signed "Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees." So either it is 100% male OR the female staff are either unmarried or do not have the same complaints.

The fact that they're not represented in this letter doesn't mean they don't have these complains. They may not have voiced them, or voiced them privately or elsewhere.

If I write a blog post about how I feel I'm being exploited by my employer, that doesn't necessarily mean my colleagues don't feel the same.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#93

Post by jiggy2011 »

jbackus wrote: post #89
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your s…

> So, that culture stuff you're speaking of? It's bullshit. Ultimately it's a method of getting you to do the bidding of others. It's not about you at all. No one is looking out for you, and while you may feel like you're part of a team, that team has no loyalty to you. If you stop performing at peak level for even a couple months then your prospects will be severely harmed. > Employees get to feel proud they've lite…

I have never worked in game development but I know people who have. The impression that I have got was that processes were often not well thought out and people were sent down pointless rabbit holes on a whim since employee time was not considered a scarce resource and could be squandered.

They have no real incentive to optimise their workflows to be more productive in less time because they could simply crunch their staff until they burned out and then bring in a fresh batch of recent graduates.

It is true that people work voluntarily but on the flipside it is still important to highlight these things so that potential game developers can make informed decisions before deciding to invest heavily in this career path.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#94

Post by acron0 »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #83
product50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know about Rockstar then don't comment. This is a great game and it really appears that the developers have put their everything in building it. Sometimes people want to work hard to make sure their output is a success. It is not always about 40hrs work week. A great company is one which creates a culture to build impressive products and where employees feel motivated to be a part of it. I am not saying…

Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your s…

GTA V was developed in Dundee, Scotland. In Europe.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#95

Post by jiggy2011 »

sspiff wrote: post #92
jiggy2011 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is signed "Determined Devoted Wives of Rockstar San Diego employees." So either it is 100% male OR the female staff are either unmarried or do not have the same complaints.

The fact that they're not represented in this letter doesn't mean they don't have these complains. They may not have voiced them, or voiced them privately or elsewhere. If I write a blog post about how I feel I'm being exploited by my employer, that doesn't necessarily mean my colleagues don't feel the same.

It is possible, but this looks like it was written on behalf of a large group of people and it seems strange to sign it in such a gender specific way.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#96

Post by InclinedPlane »

sspiff wrote: post #46
grannyg00se wrote: post #7

That official gameplay video is really impressive if you haven't looked at the state of the art in video games lately. It looks like a wish list of gaming features put together by hardcore fans with no limits on budget or creativity. If I didn't know the game was released and well received, I'd say there's no way in hell it would be possible to put it all together on time, on budget, and without major flaws. Damn imp…

I don't know about Rockstar, but from what I've heard from game developers from big studios, they're driven like slaves. Crunch time, unpaid overtime, wages that are not paid on time, etc etc. It's easier to be on time and on budget if you break rules like 8 hour days and proper remuneration of the workforce.

Slaves is probably not the right word, though working conditions in the game industry are on average pretty brutal. However, a big reason why they are is because there is such a huge pool of 20-something devs out there who are eagerly lined up to jump into gamedev. And it usually takes several years of living in that meat grinder for the scales to fall away from peoples' eyes, but even then as they leave there are plenty more lined up to take their place. From the perspective of management there's no problem at all, even though such working conditions actually cause a lot of fundamental issues in being able to successfully execute and continually losing the most senior and experienced devs as they get older and less tolerant of bullshit is kind of a big deal.

See also: silicon valley startup culture.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#97

Post by InclinedPlane »

grannyg00se wrote: post #7

That official gameplay video is really impressive if you haven't looked at the state of the art in video games lately. It looks like a wish list of gaming features put together by hardcore fans with no limits on budget or creativity. If I didn't know the game was released and well received, I'd say there's no way in hell it would be possible to put it all together on time, on budget, and without major flaws. Damn imp…

Here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-xHcvug3WI

Anyone else notice the nod to Vangelis' Blade Runner theme in the first part?

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#98

Post by golergka »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #83
product50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know about Rockstar then don't comment. This is a great game and it really appears that the developers have put their everything in building it. Sometimes people want to work hard to make sure their output is a success. It is not always about 40hrs work week. A great company is one which creates a culture to build impressive products and where employees feel motivated to be a part of it. I am not saying…

Man, you have swallowed every last drop of the koolaid they're selling you. Consider this situation: You've spent most of your life training yourself as a game developer, only to find out that every company you'd like to work for will drive you like a slave. 50+ hours per week is not merely an option, but a necessity if you want to remain competitive. And since everyone wants to be a game developer, that means your s…

I work a steady 40 hour week and only do additional hours if it's my fault.

And I don't even live in a first-world country.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#99

Post by golergka »

valryon wrote: post #64
product50 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know about Rockstar then don't comment. This is a great game and it really appears that the developers have put their everything in building it. Sometimes people want to work hard to make sure their output is a success. It is not always about 40hrs work week. A great company is one which creates a culture to build impressive products and where employees feel motivated to be a part of it. I am not saying…

For Red Dead Redemption, wives of the developers has written several open letters to show the world the horrible condition their husbands were facing. You can easily find this story, like on Gamasutra: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/RockstarSpouse/20100107/4032/...

I would gladly do overtime for a game like that, it would be completely worth it.

EA's sports game studios, or Korean/Chinese outsourcing/free2play sweatshops are places where it really sucks.

Re: Grand Theft Auto V Earns $800 Million in a Day

#100

Post by golergka »

fhd2 wrote: post #33
adamnemecek wrote: post #4

Kind of surprised that marketing cost them more than development ($115m vs $150m).

> Kind of surprised that marketing cost them more than development ($115m vs $150m). Kinda depressing, considering how game developers are typically underpaid and overworked... But as long as people are willing to put up with it, it's going to continue.

> game developers are typically underpaid and overworked

And marketing people aren't?

I'm a game developer, and it depresses me how much undeserved hatred and contempt "suits" get form us "technical" guys. We work hard to make something, and they work hard to get it to the people. If you don't like the idea that games like GTAV should be advertised in order to get the money they deserve (and I think no one here disagrees that GTAV deserves it), you should be disappointed with the audience who wouldn't notice it if not for a marketing budget.

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