Girl Tickets to ng-conf • Hacker News Board

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#21

Post by danellis » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 5:53 AM UTC

EllaMentry wrote: post #8

Wow...I don't know how much more stereotypical sexist male you could get in one email..."girls", "pink lanyard", gender binaries... The way to attract more women, stike, people to your conference is not through tokenizing them...it's by making the conference interesting (having some diversity in the organization group would be a start!)

If women in tech don't want people referring to them as "girls", perhaps they shouldn't create organizations like "Girl Develop It", "Girls Who Code", "Girls Teaching Girls to Code" and "Black Girls Code".

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#22

Post by danellis » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 5:55 AM UTC

camus wrote: post #20

That's called neo-sexism, like affirmative action was neo-racism ( i dont deny the social implications of racial segregation and slavery, but these politics did not make people less racist). If I was a girl I would definetly feel offended. Now what about tickets for us black people ? We too are a minority in the IT sector... how does it sound now ?

I often wonder why there isn't the same big fuss in the industry about the lack of black men and women in tech. In my experience, there are fewer black people in the software industry than there are women.

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#23

Post by EllaMentry » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

penrod wrote: post #18

serf wrote: post #3

if you don't like the use of the word girl, eh. I don't really like boy much, either, but it wouldn't offend me. 'Boy's night out', 'one of the boys', whatever. It's not professional, but tech companies tend to be pretty fringe on the word professional, anyway. if you don't like the idea of giving a specific sex a discounted ticket for simply having been born with different genitalia , right on. I totally agree.

On the topic of annoying words, thank you for writing "sex" rather than "gender". I hate that stupid euphemism.

The two words mean entirely different things...

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#24

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 5:57 AM UTC

WildUtah wrote: post #13

1. Instead of girl-tickets, which is insulting, they should be called "Chickets." 2. Not all girls -- especially adult professional girls -- subscribe to traditional princess gender roles. Offer a variety of pretty pastel and rainbow colors beyond staid and confining old pink. Maybe men could also have some nice alpha earth tones for their lanyards for contrast so that nobody with a gender dimorphic identity could ev…

[deleted]

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#25

Post by penrod » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:02 AM UTC

EllaMentry wrote: post #23

penrod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the topic of annoying words, thank you for writing "sex" rather than "gender". I hate that stupid euphemism.

The two words mean entirely different things...

Actually, not any more: http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/haig/publications_files/0...

"... the major expansion in the use of gender followed its adoption by feminists to distinguish the social and cultural aspects of differences between men and women (gender) from biological differences (sex). Since then, the use of gender has tended to expand to encompass the biological, and a sex/gender distinction is now only ﬁtfully observed" [emphasis mine.]

"... gender has come to be adopted as a simple synonym, perhaps a euphemism, for sex by many writers who are unfamiliar with the term’s recent history."

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#26

Post by EllaMentry » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:06 AM UTC

penrod wrote: post #25

EllaMentry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two words mean entirely different things...

Actually, not any more: http://www.oeb.harvard.edu/faculty/haig/publications_files/0... "... the major expansion in the use of gender followed its adoption by feminists to distinguish the social and cultural aspects of differences between men and women (gender) from biological differences (sex). Since then, the use of gender has tended to expand to encompass the biological, and a sex/gender distinction is now only ﬁt…

Read the paper and better understand what you just quoted...

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#27

Post by EllaMentry » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:06 AM UTC

danellis wrote: post #21

EllaMentry wrote: post #8

Wow...I don't know how much more stereotypical sexist male you could get in one email..."girls", "pink lanyard", gender binaries... The way to attract more women, stike, people to your conference is not through tokenizing them...it's by making the conference interesting (having some diversity in the organization group would be a start!)

If women in tech don't want people referring to them as "girls", perhaps they shouldn't create organizations like "Girl Develop It", "Girls Who Code", "Girls Teaching Girls to Code" and "Black Girls Code".

They have completely different connotations...one is a self descriptive, the other is belittling.

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#28

Post by britta » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:07 AM UTC

Google distributes stickers that say: "I'm a woman in tech. That doesn't mean everything has to be pink." See https://twitter.com/blackfemcoders/status/318072430771978241 for a photo. They're very popular at women-in-tech events!

In other words: trying to make your event more welcoming to women, in an effort to compensate somewhat for the industry's systemic sexism - sure, that's a good idea, and there are experts and nonprofit organizations who can advise you on how best to do that. There are also lots of blog posts about good strategies. Handling this clumsily, with pink stuff and calling women "girls" - not so good execution.

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#29

Post by lucisferre » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:10 AM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #15

This discussion will go off the rails like always, but I just want to point out that not all women (girls?) are the same. Many women will take this positively and attend because this would make them feel welcome, while many others would be put off by this. Simply being female does not give you the ultimate say on whether this is fine or not. You are not some spokeswoman for your entire gender. I'd judge this as a suc…

Well then let me (as a man though) cast my vote on this not being so fine (judging by other posts I'm not alone). I'm not calling outright sexism on it, but it was misguided at best.

By the way, conjuring up imaginary "other women" to argue against the author just doesn't come across well to me. You want to argue the point just do it.

Re: Girl Tickets to ng-conf

#30

Post by camus » Tue, Sep 17, 2013, 6:10 AM UTC

danellis wrote: post #21

EllaMentry wrote: post #8

Wow...I don't know how much more stereotypical sexist male you could get in one email..."girls", "pink lanyard", gender binaries... The way to attract more women, stike, people to your conference is not through tokenizing them...it's by making the conference interesting (having some diversity in the organization group would be a start!)

If women in tech don't want people referring to them as "girls", perhaps they shouldn't create organizations like "Girl Develop It", "Girls Who Code", "Girls Teaching Girls to Code" and "Black Girls Code".

you know,it's like the "blacks call themself nig" thing ( I am black ).