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Being poor changes your thinking about everything

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Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#111

Post by superuser2 »

unono wrote: post #106
superuser2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not demand for an infinite number of web programmers or web startups. Teaching every child to program just drives down the value of programming skills. You have not solved the risk or capital problems. Yes, there are a lot of problems with the education system. Wake me when you find a way to fix it that actually works in a sustainable and scalable fashion. Punishing teachers for teaching students who don't g…

We wouldn't be punishing teachers, just get ridding of a system that doesn't work. Salman Khan has a proposed a better one where schools are essentially libraries/babysitters that any child can go in and learn a self-directed curriculum. There is an 'unlimited demand' for programmers skills because of demand ran out, there would be no work left (we'd have a singularity/post scarcity) - programmers automate work.

Teachers' unions are preventing test-score linked pay and firing. Several of my union teachers did flipped classrooms on a regular basis. How is the teachers' union the villain here?

> There is an 'unlimited demand' for programmers skills because of demand ran out, there would be no work left (we'd have a singularity/post scarcity) - programmers automate work.

Someone has to pay programmers to live. If everyone is a qualified programmer, then there's always a programmer willing to work for less (barring a powerful labor union) - until you've driven the wage back down to basic survival (at least for many of the 90% of people who are by definition not in the top 10% as far as skill level), and we're back in the same cycle of poverty we were trying to fix.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#112

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64
vacri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were, without a doubt, the best articles that Cracked has put forth. I've never been in poverty, but I've seen it from a near distance. I've been poor, but if push came to shove, I always had a middle-class mother I could move back to. That's a 'safety net' that many in poverty simply do not have. And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "b…

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

35% in Fed taxes + 10% in state taxes is pretty close to half, buddy.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#113

Post by zouhair »

wolfgke wrote: post #13
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

Because having kids is a joy of life that doesn't need huge money put upfront. Only the ones with enough money can afford to wait to have kids to enjoy life a little more and be more ready for said kids. The poor do not have that luxury.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#114

Post by lutusp »

wolfgke wrote: post #13
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

> Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet?

Because childbearing is not a rational choice -- it's a visceral response to the most basic of biological drives, drives that won't brook interference from something as peripheral as intelligence.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#115

Post by [deleted] »

waps wrote: post #78
alexqgb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He specifically said people should be "100% certain" that they can support their children until their children can support themselves. Given that this normally entails a span of ~25 years (assuming two kids through college), that group is both certainly and obviously limited to the richest of the rich.

Having kids is a human right. That should be the end of the discussion. Anyone, rich or poor, is * entitled to have children [1] * entitled to financial and other aid to raise those children safely and securely [2] [1] UDHR, Article 16, paragraph (1) http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#a16 [2] UDHR, Article 25, paragraph (2) http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#a25 Since the US has signed these treaties, and unless…

[deleted]

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#116

Post by wildwood »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #112
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

35% in Fed taxes + 10% in state taxes is pretty close to half, buddy.

You're only paying 35% in US federal taxes if you're making over 400K a year. Someone making $100K to $150K is in the 28% bracket.

And you're probably only paying 10% in state tax if you live in California. Most other states' income tax are around 5 or 6 percent, and some are at zero.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#117

Post by alina24 »

narrator wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

What I keep thinking when I read these is if poor one should live with a large number of roommates you trust and share expenses and pitch in to help each other in an emergency. This in how people survive in developing countries. Something has collapsed in America though and everyone HAS to live by themselves and can't seem to trust anybody else.

My experience may be an extreme one but the last apartment I shared,my flatmate would go for long periods without talking to me at all,only communicating by writing note after note,which sometimes was so odd as our rooms were right next to each other,we could easily hear the other person coming and going and would be easier,nicer(in my view)to actually talk.

I felt that she wanted to believe she lived alone but couldn't handle the fact that both of us needed the other for the apartment sharing to really work.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#118

Post by vacri »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64
vacri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were, without a doubt, the best articles that Cracked has put forth. I've never been in poverty, but I've seen it from a near distance. I've been poor, but if push came to shove, I always had a middle-class mother I could move back to. That's a 'safety net' that many in poverty simply do not have. And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "b…

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

I didn't say that 'she should be happy with what she had', I said that given a windfall, all she could do was bitch about the small part that was taxed. Getting a payrise made her unhappy!

I'm saying 'keep some perspective', not 'don't try to improve your situation'.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#119

Post by vacri »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #112
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

35% in Fed taxes + 10% in state taxes is pretty close to half, buddy.

Who said I was a yank, mate?

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#120

Post by unono »

superuser2 wrote: post #111
unono wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We wouldn't be punishing teachers, just get ridding of a system that doesn't work. Salman Khan has a proposed a better one where schools are essentially libraries/babysitters that any child can go in and learn a self-directed curriculum. There is an 'unlimited demand' for programmers skills because of demand ran out, there would be no work left (we'd have a singularity/post scarcity) - programmers automate work.

Teachers' unions are preventing test-score linked pay and firing. Several of my union teachers did flipped classrooms on a regular basis. How is the teachers' union the villain here? > There is an 'unlimited demand' for programmers skills because of demand ran out, there would be no work left (we'd have a singularity/post scarcity) - programmers automate work. Someone has to pay programmers to live. If everyone is a…

Teacher union doesn't want any kind of performance based system - they're the villain.

Even if there is variability of pay, at least society would be far richer, so being poor wouldn't suck so bad.

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