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Being poor changes your thinking about everything

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Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#101

Post by unono »

superuser2 wrote: post #94
unono wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause is that the teaching system doesn't turn all children into businessmen. If everyone was a businessman, they'd be earning more than government set minimums.

You can't be a successful businessman without 1) having or making something that people value (which requires skill, capital, or some of both) and 2) taking risks with your time and money instead of earning low but guaranteed income. If you don't have skills, capital, or the cash to survive when your gamble doesn't pay off (just like it usually doesn't pay off in Silicon Valley), you don't get to be a businessman. Te…

The government spends about $10,000 per year per child on public education.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/155515613/how-much...

That's $120,000 over k-12 (not including pre-school). Is $120,000 and 12 years not enough to teach every kid entrepreneurship and coding?

As I wrote in another comment, the current education system is 19th century stuff and it's amazing a lot more people aren't astounded why it still exists.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#102

Post by superuser2 »

unono wrote: post #101
superuser2 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't be a successful businessman without 1) having or making something that people value (which requires skill, capital, or some of both) and 2) taking risks with your time and money instead of earning low but guaranteed income. If you don't have skills, capital, or the cash to survive when your gamble doesn't pay off (just like it usually doesn't pay off in Silicon Valley), you don't get to be a businessman. Te…

The government spends about $10,000 per year per child on public education. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/155515613/how-much... That's $120,000 over k-12 (not including pre-school). Is $120,000 and 12 years not enough to teach every kid entrepreneurship and coding? As I wrote in another comment, the current education system is 19th century stuff and it's amazing a lot more people aren't astounded why it s…

There is not demand for an infinite number of web programmers or web startups. Teaching every child to program just drives down the value of programming skills.

You have not solved the risk or capital problems.

Yes, there are a lot of problems with the education system. Wake me when you find a way to fix it that actually works in a sustainable and scalable fashion.

Punishing teachers for teaching students who don't give a shit because there is no good reason for them to give a shit just decreases the number of teachers willing to work in poor districts.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#103

Post by theorique »

mkr-hn wrote: post #92
theorique wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two words: Detroit [1]. Houses there are so cheap that this kind of plan would probably work as long as you had enough human will and intention to make it happen. As far as I can tell, that is where these things break down. It's hard for groups to form this kind of collective dynamic and trust in the absence of some cohering force - religion, a focal point like a cult leader, or similar influences. [1] Well, OK, two…

There's a reason houses in Detroit are so cheap.

Fair point. I think it would be a cool lab for intentional communities and alternative living models, but I think there would also be a security risk and possibility for freaks.

There are some cool people who are broke and want to live communally, but there are also some people who do that because they don't have their lives together.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#104

Post by enraged_camel »

wolfgke wrote: post #13
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

>>Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet?

A variety of factors, primarily two:

1. Poor people tend to have poor education, and are rarely if ever taught about things like birth control.

2. Poor people also tend to be very religious, and in America at least the main religion is anti-birth control.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#105

Post by wooster »

teddyh wrote: post #56
jpau wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it the wrong way around - it's not a demand-driven arrangement, but a supply-driven one; landlords prefer to have more than one person responsible for the lease, provided the tenants have sound integrity. It's like standing on one leg; if that leg crumbles, you will fall and land hard. But if you have two legs, one leg can crumble and the other gives you enough time for you to land gently. If you...…

If that's the case, why hasn't this naturally occured everywhere? Why only in Australia and for students in university towns?

I don't understand why you think this is unusual. At least in the areas I've lived in (LA, Silicon Valley, San Francisco, Seattle, …) it's been very common.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#106

Post by unono »

superuser2 wrote: post #102
unono wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government spends about $10,000 per year per child on public education. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/06/21/155515613/how-much... That's $120,000 over k-12 (not including pre-school). Is $120,000 and 12 years not enough to teach every kid entrepreneurship and coding? As I wrote in another comment, the current education system is 19th century stuff and it's amazing a lot more people aren't astounded why it s…

There is not demand for an infinite number of web programmers or web startups. Teaching every child to program just drives down the value of programming skills. You have not solved the risk or capital problems. Yes, there are a lot of problems with the education system. Wake me when you find a way to fix it that actually works in a sustainable and scalable fashion. Punishing teachers for teaching students who don't g…

We wouldn't be punishing teachers, just get ridding of a system that doesn't work. Salman Khan has a proposed a better one where schools are essentially libraries/babysitters that any child can go in and learn a self-directed curriculum.

There is an 'unlimited demand' for programmers skills because of demand ran out, there would be no work left (we'd have a singularity/post scarcity) - programmers automate work.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#107

Post by msprague »

teddyh wrote: post #86
mattmanser wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the articles is making a massive deal about 'afford[ing] those grocery trips' and 'burning shitloads of gas'. As someone who comes from a country where 'gas' is a shit load more expensive than the US because of tax I call utter bullshit. It costs about 20-40p to go to a supermarket, or at most a dollar in your US terms. Over here there's also a massive competition war going on at the moment between Tesco & Sai…

Things like grocery stores tend to be further away in the US, thereby costing more fuel to get to.

From the data I've found, this is incorrect. The average US household spends 4% of it's pretax income on gas, whereas the average British household spends around 10%

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9831

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2127644/Worl...

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#108

Post by tsotha »

poppysan wrote: post #70
wolfgke wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

You should let us know exactly who has the right to reproduce. Poor people don't?

Sure they do. But do they have a right to use the fact that they have kids to sponge off the rest of us?

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#109

Post by tsotha »

msprague wrote: post #107
teddyh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things like grocery stores tend to be further away in the US, thereby costing more fuel to get to.

From the data I've found, this is incorrect. The average US household spends 4% of it's pretax income on gas, whereas the average British household spends around 10% http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9831 http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-2127644/Worl...

That may be true, but we're not talking about the average household.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#110

Post by tsotha »

afterburner wrote: post #90
alan_cx wrote: post #9

And being rich doesn't? Is it the poor who have power to change things, or the rich? Which is the bigger group? The poor or the rich? If it is the poor, then isn't it relatively the rich who think differently?

"Is it the poor who have power to change things, or the rich?" Mostly the rich. That's the point. Laws get passed to service the wants of the rich, because they have orders of magnitude more influence. These laws then screw over the poor, but the rich can't properly sympathize because they just don't understand, because their world is so different.

I don't see any evidence "laws then screw over the poor". Exactly what are you talking about?
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