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Being poor changes your thinking about everything

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Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#71

Post by bronxbomber92 »

narrator wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

What I keep thinking when I read these is if poor one should live with a large number of roommates you trust and share expenses and pitch in to help each other in an emergency. This in how people survive in developing countries. Something has collapsed in America though and everyone HAS to live by themselves and can't seem to trust anybody else.

There are some places, I'm not sure how common but my guess would be "rather common", where it's illegal to have > x (where x is usually 2-4) amount of non-related people living in the same residence. This exists where I live (but it was recently put into effect about a year ago, so it hasn't yet been enforced).

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#72

Post by superuser2 »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64
vacri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were, without a doubt, the best articles that Cracked has put forth. I've never been in poverty, but I've seen it from a near distance. I've been poor, but if push came to shove, I always had a middle-class mother I could move back to. That's a 'safety net' that many in poverty simply do not have. And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "b…

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

I think issue is specifically complaining about it going to the government, where the implication is that it's going to be squandered on "lesser people." With no sensitivity for the fact that the taxes on her raise make an enormous difference to someone on welfare. The complaint in this situation is not "I wish I had made more" but "The government should take less."

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#73

Post by theorique »

unono wrote: post #67
reverius42 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think in order to qualify as a "limousine liberal", you'd have to be able to afford a limousine. I think you'd more likely see a teacher driving one, to supplement their income.

Boo-hoo, teachers, who cannot clearly demonstrate how they actually add economic value to anything, want to be paid even more than their current $52,000 median salary. Meanwhile, fisherman, who hold the most dangerous job, have a median salary of $25,000. Firefighters, whose job is to enter dangerous buildings, $45,000. Fast food workers, $18,000.

You seriously don't see any economic value associated with the education of a child from age 6-18?

We can argue about what specific subjects are best to teach in school, and what a teacher ought to be paid, but don't you think that, broadly speaking, educating children provides some economic benefit to a nation?

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#74

Post by sillysaurus2 »

superuser2 wrote: post #72
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

I think issue is specifically complaining about it going to the government , where the implication is that it's going to be squandered on "lesser people." With no sensitivity for the fact that the taxes on her raise make an enormous difference to someone on welfare. The complaint in this situation is not "I wish I had made more" but "The government should take less."

Ah. Good point.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#75

Post by superuser2 »

wolfgke wrote: post #13
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

The prevalence of pro-early marriage, pro-birth, anti-condom social and religious values probably has something to do with this, as well as the fact that it's an evolutionary given that everyone wants to have children (or at least sex). Hard to argue with biology.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#76

Post by poppysan »

unono wrote: post #51

The root cause of poverty is the incompetent government education system - The Teacher's Union. Most public school teachers I've come across have contempt for the businessmen (people who create the wealth) and for poor people (teachers tend to be limousine liberals). The first country or state to disband the current teaching system and replace with a competitive system will skyrocket to success. This is a no-brainer,…

Wow... The root cause of poverty is incompetent education? What about the college educated poor? What about the failure of the voucher program in Milwaukee?

Why are public schools with the same "limousine liberals" operating them more successful than poor schools? I think your theory has a few holes.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#77

Post by bcoates »

narrator wrote: post #10
teddyh wrote: post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

What I keep thinking when I read these is if poor one should live with a large number of roommates you trust and share expenses and pitch in to help each other in an emergency. This in how people survive in developing countries. Something has collapsed in America though and everyone HAS to live by themselves and can't seem to trust anybody else.

Doesn't really work if you have a family, but roommates are pretty common in some parts of the US, across a wide span of income levels. Popular Southern California apartment listing company Westside Rentals has a whole roommate matching service, for example.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#78

Post by waps »

alexqgb wrote: post #40
chrismonsanto wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- The GP did not say anything about the richest of the rich only having children, nor did they say that they were libertarian. - Calling the GP an asshole and implying that they aren't "terribly intelligent" can only serve to detract from your argument. EDIT: At least you took out the asshole comment

He specifically said people should be "100% certain" that they can support their children until their children can support themselves. Given that this normally entails a span of ~25 years (assuming two kids through college), that group is both certainly and obviously limited to the richest of the rich.

Having kids is a human right. That should be the end of the discussion. Anyone, rich or poor, is

* entitled to have children [1]

* entitled to financial and other aid to raise those children safely and securely [2]

  [1] UDHR, Article 16, paragraph (1) http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#a16
  [2] UDHR, Article 25, paragraph (2) http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/#a25
Since the US has signed these treaties, and unless it intends to back out, there can be no government policy that does not follow these articles.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#79

Post by doorhammer »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #64
vacri wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These were, without a doubt, the best articles that Cracked has put forth. I've never been in poverty, but I've seen it from a near distance. I've been poor, but if push came to shove, I always had a middle-class mother I could move back to. That's a 'safety net' that many in poverty simply do not have. And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "b…

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive. There's more to life than feeling lucky we aren…

I didn't read the post as saying "be happy with what you have!" or "you're lucky you're not poor! I read it as the friend having ambition, and making headway, but demonstrating exaggerated pessimism about the headway.

That said, I mean, I don't know this person or their friend so it could be a flippant comment the friend made that's being overblown.

Who knows

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#80

Post by unono »

theorique wrote: post #73
unono wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boo-hoo, teachers, who cannot clearly demonstrate how they actually add economic value to anything, want to be paid even more than their current $52,000 median salary. Meanwhile, fisherman, who hold the most dangerous job, have a median salary of $25,000. Firefighters, whose job is to enter dangerous buildings, $45,000. Fast food workers, $18,000.

You seriously don't see any economic value associated with the education of a child from age 6-18? We can argue about what specific subjects are best to teach in school, and what a teacher ought to be paid, but don't you think that, broadly speaking, educating children provides some economic benefit to a nation?

Child care workers who watch children when parents aren't present make $19,000, that's maybe more appropriate. http://www.bls.gov/ooh/personal-care-and-service/childcare-w...

Where are the proper studies (with 1000s of participants) showing teachers can do a better job than babysitters who hand out an ipad with learning software to every student?

The teaching system is a 19th system. It's like if the tech industry continued on with using telegraphs and morse code for everything.

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