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Being poor changes your thinking about everything

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Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#41
post #21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, it's common for students to share a house, and all go on the lease. This favors the landlord, because each tenant is liable for the entire rent.

This is in university areas, with many students, I assume. In those areas, the large masses of students have made landlords open to this kind of arrangement, and they are used to dealing with students and their… special… economic situation. But try it in a non-university town where non-students vastly outnumber the students? I don't think so. The landlord has everything to risk and nothing to gain by doing strange an…

Having multiple people on the lease is not a strange practice in Australia; it's normal and not as you described. When signing the lease you're not signing for a room, you're signing responsibility for the rent and condition of the whole house/unit (excluding responsibilities remaining with the landlord, e.g. maintenance). Each of your housemates are too.

Rents are expensive. It makes no financial sense to live by yourself.

Even in my home town - which has no substantial university - it's generally assumed that if you rent and do not have dependents, you almost certainly have housemates.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#42
post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

These were, without a doubt, the best articles that Cracked has put forth. I've never been in poverty, but I've seen it from a near distance. I've been poor, but if push came to shove, I always had a middle-class mother I could move back to. That's a 'safety net' that many in poverty simply do not have.

And so it annoys the shit out of me that when a friend in finance got a $10k raise, all she could talk about was "but I lose half of it to the government!". In some strange world where 30% equals half, she's more concerned about what she lost than the fact that her gain was almost equal to a poor person's annual income. She couldn't even frame her payrise as a positive.

I was discussing poverty with a colleague yesterday, as we were discussing the concept of Basic Income. I mentioned that when I was on welfare, it still wasn't quite enough to keep me fed and housed. His response was "then move house to where it's cheaper". My counter was "firstly, the point of 'social security' is to keep people socially secure, at least for short stints, which means not kicking them out of their homes for a handful of dollars". Secondly, of course, was the ignorance of the fact that moving house is expensive (fiscally and socially), from the hunt, to the security deposit, to the day of shifting furniture, to having utilities hooked up. Thirdly, if the point was to give me welfare in the short term until I get a job, moving house to where it's cheaper is going to make it harder to get a job.

Discussing poverty is difficult, because unless you've been close to it, you won't understand the limitations of being in it. And conversely, if you're currently in it, it's hard to view it in a 'big picture' sense.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#43
post #21
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, it's common for students to share a house, and all go on the lease. This favors the landlord, because each tenant is liable for the entire rent.

This is in university areas, with many students, I assume. In those areas, the large masses of students have made landlords open to this kind of arrangement, and they are used to dealing with students and their… special… economic situation. But try it in a non-university town where non-students vastly outnumber the students? I don't think so. The landlord has everything to risk and nothing to gain by doing strange an…

Rents in Australia have followed the exhorbitant house pricing, and these days if you want to rent, you either share a house, be a well-salaried person, live in a dog box, or live in the boondocks. There's no such thing as a single person on a median or lower wage renting a house in a nice area anymore.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is "love", you robots.

> The answer is "love", you robots. Because "love" totally makes condoms not work.

When you are poor condoms are fucking expencive and don't work long term. There is a reason people sell cheap 2l soda despite the fact a 2l bottle coke is 'Realy Cheap' to 95+% of HN posters.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#45
post #41
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in university areas, with many students, I assume. In those areas, the large masses of students have made landlords open to this kind of arrangement, and they are used to dealing with students and their… special… economic situation. But try it in a non-university town where non-students vastly outnumber the students? I don't think so. The landlord has everything to risk and nothing to gain by doing strange an…

Having multiple people on the lease is not a strange practice in Australia; it's normal and not as you described. When signing the lease you're not signing for a room, you're signing responsibility for the rent and condition of the whole house/unit (excluding responsibilities remaining with the landlord, e.g. maintenance). Each of your housemates are too. Rents are expensive . It makes no financial sense to live by y…

Interesting. I would guess that the general economics have forced the landlords to accept and perhaps even promote this scheme, as it's the only was they can find a market for their services.

I wonder if this acceptance will keep once the economics changes?

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#46
post #44
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer is "love", you robots. Because "love" totally makes condoms not work.

When you are poor condoms are fucking expencive and don't work long term. There is a reason people sell cheap 2l soda despite the fact a 2l bottle coke is 'Realy Cheap' to 95+% of HN posters.

I thought planned parenthood type places gave condoms away.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#47
I really like this article. There are a lot of good insights I will be mining over the next several weeks.

One interesting thing is how it connects with John Boyd's concept of OODA. Boyd talks about "stacking" the opposing force's OODA loop and injecting it with misinformation to get it going. It more or less describes, for example, the predatory loans. It's also interesting to see this kind of dynamic play out in the TV shows, Burn Notice and Leverage.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#48
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read these articles, there's one thing that I don't appreciate: in these articles kids of poor people are mentioned. Why in the hell are these people "producing" children, if they aren't 100% certain that they'll be able to support them for the years until they are old enough to stand on their own feet? Strokes of fate that lead to poverty are one side, but the side is reproding if you are poor: I consider thi…

Are you sure you thought this post through?

"These people", "producing children". He doesn't see that these are humans. This is a result of a combination of logical, and irrational situations.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#49
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responsibility is a luxury reserved for those who can afford it.

That sounds really profound, except it isn't. That assertion is another way of justifying or rationalizing learned helplessness. It is true that there are a lot of things that suck, that few people with access to resources really empathize with those in scarcity trap. Thing is, people are not as helpless as they like to think they are.

I'm noting my observation of a social and economic phenomenon, not justifying that approach or expounding a principle we should live by.

There are many incentives to being irresponsible today, and learning about being responsible with resources involves having some non-volatile resources with which to be responsible to start. When you grow up surrounded by scarcity and a general attitude of helplessness and irresponsibility, it's really hard to develop a responsible approach to life. As a culture, I think we tend to encourage continued irresponsibility. It seems to me that in the world we've created, just a little responsibility doesn't pay--to get off to a viable start, one really needs a critical mass of responsibility, which is difficult to acquire on your own with no resources.

People are not as helpless as they think they are, but they have little way of knowing it without the benefit of having already had the experience of having resources and responsibility.

Re: Being poor changes your thinking about everything

#50
post #2

I'm very much reminded of these: http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-... http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-stupidest-habits-you-devel... http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-things-politicians-will-never-... Especially the last one. EDIT: Fixed last link

What I keep thinking when I read these is if poor one should live with a large number of roommates you trust and share expenses and pitch in to help each other in an emergency. This in how people survive in developing countries. Something has collapsed in America though and everyone HAS to live by themselves and can't seem to trust anybody else.

People do this in America. Mexican immigrants namely. I see it for myself. They know how to live well on low incomes.
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