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How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

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Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#81

Post by losethos »

Are you a Jew? You have moved against God's temple. Yer fucked.

God says... Virtual-Notary.Org hereby notes that on Date: Friday September 13, 2013 09:10.34 EDT (UTC-0400)

a random drawing in the range [1, 100000], inclusive, based on a hardware source of true randomness, yielded the following decision.

  Random Value: 63372
inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

18:12 And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.

18:13 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Ask ye now among the heathen, who hath heard such things: the virgin of Israel hath done a very horrible thing.

18:14 Will a man leave the snow of Lebanon which cometh from the rock of the field? or shall the cold flowing waters that come from another place be forsaken? 18:15 Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up; 18:16 To make their land desolate, and a perpetual hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished, and wag his head.

18:17 I will scatter them as with an east wind before the enemy; I will shew them the back, and not the face, in the day of their calamity.

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#82

Post by bpierre »

anoopelias wrote: post #50

One of the issues I found with contributing to open source is the time it takes to get a build environment up and running. Since different people face different kind of issues and projects usually lack an exhaustive documentation, I've always felt adding a light weight image of the build environment could help. I hope in future Docker or similar projects pave the way for it.

Not sure if you are talking about production or only development environments, but Vagrant seems to provide a good solution for that: http://www.vagrantup.com/

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#83

Post by portmanteaufu »

Ha! Crazy to see a question I asked 5 months ago pop up on Hacker News.

The docker.io team has said that they don't consider it to be production ready [0]. Has anyone experienced any major problems? Anyone using it in production?

[0] http://blog.docker.io/2013/08/getting-to-docker-1-0/

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#84

Post by rdtsc »

bobf wrote: post #7

Docker doesn't add a whole lot over what basic Linux containers (lxc and vserver) have offered for years. Having said that, the main benefit to Docker is a change in viewpoint from "virtual machine" to "application". Docker aims to make applications portably deployable to any Docker-machine. Since Docker uses lxc (aka Linux containers), it helps to understand a little how containers are different from other virtualiz…

Exactly a point that is important to make is that LXC VMs are bound to same kernel and architecture as host machine.

But then the "fix" is to have a farm of host machines of all supported configuration of kernel and architecture (mostly just Linux distributions). Migration and load balancing will be more rigid as can't move any machine to any host. Some hosts

What is not doable it seems is say supporting windows guests, older Linux kernels etc. That argues for a hybrid approach with a controller API on top that uses KVMs or Xen hypervisors alongside LXC

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#85

Post by j_s »

sarnowski wrote: post #48
rdl wrote: post #28

I really don't like giving up the isolation of modern hypervisors, particularly those with Intel virtualization extensions. Docker (and LXC) seems like a huge step backwards for security. I'm sure there are use cases, but I'd never multi-tenant with it.

> Docker (and LXC) seems like a huge step backwards for security. Sry but link says it all. No further comment from me: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=119318909016582&w=2

I don't think that your link disagrees with the OP at all. Yes, bare metal is more secure than hardware virtualization; but hardware virtualization still provides greater security than kernel virtualization.

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#86

Post by jaytaylor »

portmanteaufu wrote: post #83

Ha! Crazy to see a question I asked 5 months ago pop up on Hacker News. The docker.io team has said that they don't consider it to be production ready [0]. Has anyone experienced any major problems? Anyone using it in production? [0] http://blog.docker.io/2013/08/getting-to-docker-1-0/

I found myself asking the same question. See my related comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6378823

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#87

Post by crashoverdrive »

xnxn wrote: post #57
jaytaylor wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't follow. ShipBuilder uses LXC and is a complete open-source self-hosted PaaS; a Heroku-clone. How is it a Docker competitor? I cite it merely as an example of the sorts of cool things which are possible with LXC.

Truthfully, you plug ShipBuilder more frequently than I am comfortable with. It makes your related comments seem disingenuous.

Truthfully then by your own moral high bar, Shykes plugging of Docker should make you really uncomfortable. If you however allow yourself to take a step back and realize these threads are directed at real people trying to help each other with real problems, (Though arguably some do it for money) Then you can allow yourself to see it as helpfulness.

Because in reality, What is personal gain of plugging an open source free product that helps people?

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#88

Post by jaytaylor »

ailox wrote: post #69

I Would love to migrate 50+ KVM VMs to LXC-Containers, but there seem to be some problems left with security[1][2]. I cant wait to get my hands on Docker, but I lack the SELinux knowledge to secure everything the 'proper' way. Is LXC (and therefore Docker) really ready for Production yet? Edit: Formatting. --- [1] http://mattoncloud.org/2012/07/16/are-lxc-containers-enough/ [2] https://blog.flameeyes.eu/2010/06/lxc-a…

It depends on how you are using containers. If you control what code is run in them and who has access to the containers and their hosts, then production use should be fine as far as security goes.

However, if you're trying to run something which lets untrusted people login to the containers or run arbitrary untrusted code in the containers, then I certainly wouldn't recommend doing that with containers in a production environment.

One project you might like to keep an eye on is CoreOS [1]. As I understand it, their goal is to create an OS which will come configured to safely run containers. Once it is ready I would expect it will be suitable for use in a production environment.

[1] http://coreos.com/

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#89

Post by justincormack »

derefr wrote: post #72
jmspring wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of us do, when appropriate. Docker took a technology known to many that setup/admin/manage machines, added some fluff, made things simpler, and marketed the idea. In a crowd that might spend more time thinking about nodejs and callbacks vs promises or how easily one can tip a rails app up on heroku, existing systems tools for things like jails/virtualization may either be over looked or not a concern. For every…

Honestly, I have no idea if the software I write runs on FreeBSD. I know it runs on Linux, and therefore I know I can package it with Docker. And I think that's the crux of it--do you think anyone would use Heroku if its container environment were FreeBSD-based? I'm guessing not; nobody develops on FreeBSD, so they'd have to test on a separate FreeBSD VM before deploying.

Lots of people seem to develop on Macs, so Linux is a VM to them. And if it runs on a Mac it probably runs on FreeBSD. Joyent seems to be managing with non-Linux containers too.

Re: How is Docker.io different from a normal virtual machine?

#90

Post by zapt02 »

crashoverdrive wrote: post #87
xnxn wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truthfully, you plug ShipBuilder more frequently than I am comfortable with. It makes your related comments seem disingenuous.

Truthfully then by your own moral high bar, Shykes plugging of Docker should make you really uncomfortable. If you however allow yourself to take a step back and realize these threads are directed at real people trying to help each other with real problems, (Though arguably some do it for money) Then you can allow yourself to see it as helpfulness. Because in reality, What is personal gain of plugging an open source…

Fully agree!!
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