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A new breed of Chrome Apps

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Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#161
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you have Go on a mobile OS as a mobile application development framework?

One guy calls the web a language, now someone calls Go a mobile application development framework. Come on, guys, we're programmers, let's call things by their right names. Go is a programming language, and technicalities like goroutines aside, you'd want it pretty much for the same reason why you'd want Java, Objective-C, JavaScript or, Heaven deliver us from the Symbian days, C++: some people think it's a nice lang…

My bad, meant programming language.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#162
post #127
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smalltalk? meets very few of those points, whilst it has inspired a number of languages it's not a real-world choice itself for developing complex web apps. Dart's closest language is JavaScript (which it also transpiles to) of which it presents a compelling option and holds a number of advantages over - esp. for maintaining large web apps. I've also used a number of languages in the last 15 years, and I've personall…

> - Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony Smaltalk had it. > - Provides the fastest dev iteration times (there's no compile step, just edit + run in Dart VM/Dartium) Smaltalk had it. > - Provides ~10x faster start-up times than JS with snapshots (Dart VM) Smaltalk VMs, actually Self, were where the first usuable JIT compilers were developed. > - Provides faster run-time performance, that'…

Provides a familiar language with clean semantics and low ceremony > Smaltalk had it.

Smalltalk's syntax is anything but familiar, which for programming languages means C-inspired syntax.

> Smaltalk VMs, actually Self, were where the first usuable JIT compilers were developed. > Smaltalk had it. > Self and StrongTalk were quite performant. SIMD was not available back then.

Where are the benchmarks? Alan Kay wanted to kill Smalltalk in the 70's because the way they done things like reflection was done and performed poorly. The computer language shootout shows Dart outperforming Smalltalk by several factors for most things and their still working hard on improving performance with v1.0 of Dart not even released yet: http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64/benchmark.php?te... Note: many of the VM team that were originally on the StrongTalk VM team are working on the Dart VM now who have a heavy influenced on how Dart is designed to ensure it retains a great balance of productivity and performance.

> - Provides a unified object model so all classes from all libraries are interoperable > Smaltalk had it.

Not a coincidence either, Dart's object model was inspired from Smalltalk as many of Dart engineers were from Smalltalk heritage.

> - Providing a rich, well-defined, consistent API, real collections, removing JS WATs, smoothing over browser quirks > Smaltalk had real collections.

But does nothing to simplify web programming, which was the point of this.

> - Provides a unified and composable IO model: Futures and Streams (repeating events) > Smalltalk has streams.

Dart is single-threaded and uses Future's for composing async operations for all non-blocking operations which is the default. Like most languages Smalltalk IO is mostly blocking and multi-threading and has poor support for non-blocking operations.

> Fare enough regarding WebUI, as the web did not exist back then. However Smaltalk is responsible for the MVC concept.

Right, but because its effectively non-existent for web programming we'll never see proper support for web technology like Web Components or tooling like TreeShaking, bundling.

> VM pruning in Smaltalk environments for deployment.

Which means nothing for web deployment and is less useful on the server where size is less of a factor.

> This is only true when using Dartium. Transpiling to JavaScript does not count.

Transpiling to JS does count, Dart has great source-maps support letting you debug Dart code from inside browsers running Dart2JS. But in terms of Native VM not running any JS, then yes Dartium now, Chrome in future and possibly Opera by virtue of Blink.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#163
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I'd rather see them push Android as a increasingly more mature OS alternative to Windows . And you'll be able to run Chrome on Android anyway. What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? The only major things I see ChromeOS has over Chrome for Android is the security model, which will be impossible in Android, since you need nat…

> What exactly are you expecting to get from the mythical "ChromeOS and Android merger", when you already have Chrome for Android? Seriously. I don't get this knee-jerk desire to have ChromeOS and Android become some sort of weird hybrid. They're two different platforms. Their combination isn't necessarily greater than the sum of the parts.

This applies to all of the talk of platform convergence in general, including what MS has been attempting with Windows. I just don't understand this desire to merge lots of different platforms and applications together.

People must be playing too much Katamari Damacy or something.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#164

One thing that I think is really cool about Chrome Apps is that you can write USB drivers in Javascript that will run on any platform that runs Chrome or Chromium. This means that if you want to make a hardware device that syncs with the cloud, all you have to do is write what is essentially a web app, and anyone with Windows, OS X, Linux, or Chrome OS can use your thing. I'm personally working on a Chrome SDR app fo…

> if you want to make a hardware device that syncs with the cloud

...you can equip that device with one of the many standard, open protocols already in ubiquitous use.

Browser-based hardware drivers in JavaScript? Seriously?

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#165
post #164

One thing that I think is really cool about Chrome Apps is that you can write USB drivers in Javascript that will run on any platform that runs Chrome or Chromium. This means that if you want to make a hardware device that syncs with the cloud, all you have to do is write what is essentially a web app, and anyone with Windows, OS X, Linux, or Chrome OS can use your thing. I'm personally working on a Chrome SDR app fo…

> if you want to make a hardware device that syncs with the cloud ...you can equip that device with one of the many standard, open protocols already in ubiquitous use. Browser-based hardware drivers in JavaScript? Seriously?

Please give me an example of one of these. I'm thinking about things like Garmin Connect or Fitbit here.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#166

It would be nice if the apps they recommended (wunderlist) actually worked. I have attempted 5 times to "sign up" for the wunderlist app, every time I hit the button the app freezes on the load screen. Not once has it made it past. I also have not received one email verifying my attempt to sign up. My first experience with app launcher and one of the apps would be horrible. Better get on the ball if you really wanna…

Sorry, you had issues signing up. We patched that bug within 24 hours. You shouldn't have issues signing up anymore with the packaged chrome app.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#167
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you want to make a hardware device that syncs with the cloud ...you can equip that device with one of the many standard, open protocols already in ubiquitous use. Browser-based hardware drivers in JavaScript? Seriously?

Please give me an example of one of these. I'm thinking about things like Garmin Connect or Fitbit here.

An example of one of what, open-standard data exchange protocols? There are many options at each of the OSI layers.

Why implement low-level hardware handshaking via JavaScript in the browser, if all you want to do is sync application data?

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Firefox doesn't?

Firefox as of 23+ uses significantly less memory than Chrome (in my experience - your mileage may vary though)

With same tabs open for the same amount of time, Firefox uses significantly less. I hate to say this, but Safari beats Firefox, which makes it the most efficient browser on OS X.

Re: A new breed of Chrome Apps

#169
post #106
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of your points were already covered by Smaltalk, and we all know where it is nowadays. Sorry, but I lost count of the languages I have used since 1986 and just don't believe in Dart ever taking off unless Google makes it so.

Smalltalk? meets very few of those points, whilst it has inspired a number of languages it's not a real-world choice itself for developing complex web apps. Dart's closest language is JavaScript (which it also transpiles to) of which it presents a compelling option and holds a number of advantages over - esp. for maintaining large web apps. I've also used a number of languages in the last 15 years, and I've personall…

amen
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