Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

popularmechanics.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 191 posts

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#91

Post by biomecha »

itsybitsycoder wrote: post #69
boldfield wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to imagine a couple of touching pieces in the ancestor of the issid that aided in synchronizing the jumping mechanics. Over time, mutations in those touching pieces interlocked more firmly until they resembled what we think of as gears. If this were the case, would you not expect to observe these evolutionary steps in other organisms today? As noted in the article: ...there are many jumping insects like the…

Because mutations are random. Evolution doesn't result in the ideal designs for everything, just the best (or good enough) of the random mutations that happen. OTOH, if we were designed by something, why would the designer not use the optimal leg designs for all the jumping bugs?

> if we were designed by something, why would the designer not use the optimal leg designs for all the jumping bugs?

Because:

- the designer is not that clever,

- the designer likes to play with its creatures,

- the designer is not alone,

- the designer forgot to update its creations,

- or simply because she does not care.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#92

Post by jlgreco »

sliverstorm wrote: post #90
jlgreco wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia defines pulleys as "A pulley is a wheel on an axle that is designed to support movement of a cable or belt along its circumference" , though I think the wheel/axle requirement is probably shouldn't be considered a hard requirement. On the other hand, I don't think I would call the loops that fishing line passes through along the length of a fishing pole "pulleys". I guess I'd say that block and tackle is no…

If your line is out, and you take up slack and the fishing pole starts to bow, the loops are indeed functioning as pulleys.

Absolutely, in the technical sense, though I would hesitate to actually describe it that way. It seems strange.

Alternatively, shoelace eyelets are pulleys ('block and tackle' in fact) , but describing them that way seems odd.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#93

Post by biomecha »

swamp40 wrote: post #86
chockablock wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

non sequitur . Why does beauty imply the existence of an intelligent designer?

Engineering beauty. Like a Saturn V rocket, or an AC induction motor. Things that make you proud to be an engineer.

So that intelligence would be able to feel proud of something? That's a very human concept.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#94

Post by shmageggy »

swamp40 wrote: post #77

It is for beauty like this that I believe all living things were originally designed by some intelligence, somewhere. Perhaps designed to mutate and evolve, or perhaps that was a limitation in the source materials, but there are some beautifully engineered living systems on our planet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument

What I was looking for but didn't find in the article was an explanation (or even a hypothesis) for how this mechanism evolved. One of the things I find most fascinating about evolution is how seemingly irreducible complexity in nature always turns out to have a some path of mutations and adaptations that led to the current state. For instance, the canonical example of 18th century teleology, the eye, was touted as being so unimaginably complex that there's the only conceivable explanation for its existence was design, yet today we have a clear picture of how that organ arose from simple photorecptive cells. My guess in this instance? The friction plates that their ancestors have and the other species have got bumpy, then they got more bumpy, then they interleaved.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#96

Post by snowwrestler »

swamp40 wrote: post #77

It is for beauty like this that I believe all living things were originally designed by some intelligence, somewhere. Perhaps designed to mutate and evolve, or perhaps that was a limitation in the source materials, but there are some beautifully engineered living systems on our planet.

Evolution is the ultimate proof of the power of agile engineering--ship on a schedule, test with real data, then work on the next iteration, keeping the good and discarding the bad.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#97

Post by swamp40 »

biomecha wrote: post #93
swamp40 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering beauty. Like a Saturn V rocket, or an AC induction motor. Things that make you proud to be an engineer.

So that intelligence would be able to feel proud of something? That's a very human concept.

Well, I was just explaining why I used the word beauty.

Maybe whatever created these gears was being tortured by an evil master until it made something satisfactory.

I really can't say for sure...

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#98

Post by iron_ball »

biomecha wrote: post #93
swamp40 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineering beauty. Like a Saturn V rocket, or an AC induction motor. Things that make you proud to be an engineer.

So that intelligence would be able to feel proud of something? That's a very human concept.

God cannot feel pride, for that would imply the possibility of failure. God is beyond most human emotions, probably all, for that reason: our emotions imply their opposites, while for God, there are no alternatives other than what is -- which is by definition perfect.

Mind you, I'm an atheist, so this is just my understanding of the argument.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#99

Post by dsuth »

andrew_gardener wrote: post #17
alan_cx wrote: post #9

I wonder how its prevents wear? Could be something quite revolutionary there for the finding. Some sort of new organic lubricant, or something in the gears that self lubricates.

While I can't be certain, I believe it might not handle wear very well based on the article. Near the end they mention that it molts several times growing new, larger versions of the gears. When its an adult, it actually loses these gears entirely. Their theory is that when the insect is fully grown is gets rid of the gears since it can no longer molt and thus replace them if they become damaged.

What's interesting is that their replacement - essentially friction pads, IS expected to last the remainder of their life (and for other similar insects). I would have expected gears to last longer than something relying on friction, especially at those levels of energy.

Re: First Mechanical Gear Found in a Living Creature

#100

Post by dsuth »

swamp40 wrote: post #77

It is for beauty like this that I believe all living things were originally designed by some intelligence, somewhere. Perhaps designed to mutate and evolve, or perhaps that was a limitation in the source materials, but there are some beautifully engineered living systems on our planet.

You're fitting the data to support your preconceived ideas. That never works out well.
Post reply on HN