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Cocktails for programmers

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Re: Cocktails for programmers

#101

Post by jlgreco »

teddyh wrote: post #100
hamburglar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can appreciate not liking the brogrammer phenomenon, and not being interested in conferences that are so party-focused, but this guy really has a huge bug up his ass about other people enjoying themselves. "I'm not interested in 'partying hard', I want to talk with like-minded people about subjects I don't necessarily get to talk about at the office." Well, guess what, you can't force people to sit down and talk no…

> you can't force people to sit down and talk nodejs with you if they want to drink instead. Apparently, if you give most technical conference attendees the option (and venue, drinks, transport, etc), they will opt for going drinking in environments not suited for conversation. If this happens, I interpret it as a failure of the conference organizers. Why? Because their job is to organize a conference , not a party.…

Perhaps your idea of what a conference is, and what is well-suited for it, does not mesh with observed reality. Maybe that sort of conference just is not for you (I know your idea of a conference is not for me).

I've got to say though, even heavy drinking has never stopped me from having technical conversations with people, even in crowded bars...

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#102

Post by teddyh »

Dirlewanger wrote: post #54
teddyh wrote: post #24

The title “Cocktails for programmers” gives me the same feeling as would the phrase “Leaf blowers for stamp collectors”. Yes, a stamp collector might use a leaf blower, but it would not be relevant to collecting stamps. On the contrary, using a leaf blower while collecting stamps would be… inadvisable.

No fun allowed. Ever.

If you give conference attendees the option to have that much fun, they will take it and go party instead of, you know, networking and discussing the conference topic with their professional peers.

This, to me, is not a successful outcome of a conference.

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#103

Post by droidist2 »

jlgreco wrote: post #101
teddyh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't force people to sit down and talk nodejs with you if they want to drink instead. Apparently, if you give most technical conference attendees the option (and venue, drinks, transport, etc), they will opt for going drinking in environments not suited for conversation. If this happens, I interpret it as a failure of the conference organizers. Why? Because their job is to organize a conference , not a party.…

Perhaps your idea of what a conference is, and what is well-suited for it, does not mesh with observed reality. Maybe that sort of conference just is not for you (I know your idea of a conference is not for me ). I've got to say though, even heavy drinking has never stopped me from having technical conversations with people, even in crowded bars...

Just as long as there isn't house music blaring. I don't even like that for non-technical socializing. One reason bar owners like the loud music is that it induces people to drink more. If people could hear each other they may get caught up in conversation and not take as many sips of their drinks.

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#104

Post by teddyh »

jlgreco wrote: post #101
teddyh wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can't force people to sit down and talk nodejs with you if they want to drink instead. Apparently, if you give most technical conference attendees the option (and venue, drinks, transport, etc), they will opt for going drinking in environments not suited for conversation. If this happens, I interpret it as a failure of the conference organizers. Why? Because their job is to organize a conference , not a party.…

Perhaps your idea of what a conference is, and what is well-suited for it, does not mesh with observed reality. Maybe that sort of conference just is not for you (I know your idea of a conference is not for me ). I've got to say though, even heavy drinking has never stopped me from having technical conversations with people, even in crowded bars...

(I think you are reading into my comment something I did not write. I do not know what you think my "idea of a conference" would be.)

I have tried to have technical conversations at parties and in bars with people I know to be interested in and knowledgeable in the topic. It's basically impossible.

Firstly, the loud music and other conversation makes it very hard to hear what they're saying, and the things said therefore tend to be simplified into what can be said simply in short words.

Secondly, they are often drunk and/or more interested in talking about beer or something than the topic they presumably are at the conference to advance. This is, of course, understandable; they're not expecting to have anything whatsoever to do with the conference topic at the party, since nobody else is, either.

Thirdly, there are no whiteboards to use as discussion aids. It's also quite dark, and it's often cramped so you can't easily show somebody something by moving around. Basically, bars and party rooms are not exactly conducive to productive discussions. (In the past there would also be no internet and, further back, no computers, but that has thankfully become a non-issue these days.)

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#107

Post by hamburglar »

teddyh wrote: post #100
hamburglar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can appreciate not liking the brogrammer phenomenon, and not being interested in conferences that are so party-focused, but this guy really has a huge bug up his ass about other people enjoying themselves. "I'm not interested in 'partying hard', I want to talk with like-minded people about subjects I don't necessarily get to talk about at the office." Well, guess what, you can't force people to sit down and talk no…

> you can't force people to sit down and talk nodejs with you if they want to drink instead. Apparently, if you give most technical conference attendees the option (and venue, drinks, transport, etc), they will opt for going drinking in environments not suited for conversation. If this happens, I interpret it as a failure of the conference organizers. Why? Because their job is to organize a conference , not a party.…

> Apparently, if you give most technical conference attendees the option (and venue, drinks, transport, etc), they will opt for going drinking in environments not suited for conversation.

And your conclusion from this is that conference organizers should give people less of what they want?

Perhaps you are as serious and focused as you are advocating here, but I think you might find that a lot of people want a bit more than just sitting in an auditorium "talking usefully about the actual conference topic" to make the trip fun. If a conference devolves into pure binge drinking and partying, then yes, I can understand your concern. But some amount of partying is a legitimate draw for people and it fills seats. That's just the way it goes.

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#108

Post by jlgreco »

teddyh wrote: post #104
jlgreco wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps your idea of what a conference is, and what is well-suited for it, does not mesh with observed reality. Maybe that sort of conference just is not for you (I know your idea of a conference is not for me ). I've got to say though, even heavy drinking has never stopped me from having technical conversations with people, even in crowded bars...

(I think you are reading into my comment something I did not write. I do not know what you think my "idea of a conference" would be.) I have tried to have technical conversations at parties and in bars with people I know to be interested in and knowledgeable in the topic. It's basically impossible. Firstly, the loud music and other conversation makes it very hard to hear what they're saying, and the things said there…

My issue is this line: "Because their job is to organize a conference, not a party."

You are saying that conferences should not be like parties, because conferences are not like parties. You are just using your restricted definition of conference (not like a party) to support what you think a conference should be (not like a party). My take on it is that some conferences empirically do have many similarities to parties. This doesn't make them 'not conferences', so saying "their job is to organize a conference, not a party" is setting up a dichotomy that doesn't actually exist.

If that isn't your sort of conference, then no problem, not everything is for everybody. Personally I prefer more intimate technical conversations over a beer, a bar napkin, and a cellphone than sterile professional presentations in front of a whiteboard. Obviously you do not, and that is perfectly fine as well. There is room in this world for both; there is no reason to discourage one or the other from existing.

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#109

Post by jlgreco »

droidist2 wrote: post #103
jlgreco wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps your idea of what a conference is, and what is well-suited for it, does not mesh with observed reality. Maybe that sort of conference just is not for you (I know your idea of a conference is not for me ). I've got to say though, even heavy drinking has never stopped me from having technical conversations with people, even in crowded bars...

Just as long as there isn't house music blaring. I don't even like that for non-technical socializing. One reason bar owners like the loud music is that it induces people to drink more. If people could hear each other they may get caught up in conversation and not take as many sips of their drinks.

Trust me, I don't like loud noise as much as anybody. I pick my bars accordingly (Yelp is typically pretty good at reporting noise levels, but at an event you can just walk around until you find an appropriate location).

Re: Cocktails for programmers

#110

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #57
tptacek wrote: post #9

Malibu, Crème de Menthe, Jager, Triple Sec, Vodka & Coke, Kahlua. These seem like cocktails for programmers... earlier in their careers, shall we say.

My wife is a bourbon/whiskey snob. She mocks me when I make a jack and coke.

(a) your wife is awesome, (b) I too am a whiskey snob, (c) there's really nothing wrong with Jack Daniels or for that matter with jack & coke, (d) there is something wrong with mixing vodka and cola and calling it a cocktail.
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