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Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

andre.arko.net

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Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#31

Post by virtualwhys »

lutusp wrote: post #27
danielbarla wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually love to hear some specific and insightful criticisms of Vim, but referring to its history is not a particularly compelling one (for me, at least). In today's terms, the above "without wasting too much paper during editing" argument translates into "with as few keystrokes as possible". In some situations, I definitely find my ability to type (or in general, to edit text) to be the bottleneck in gettin…

> I would actually love to hear some specific and insightful criticisms of Vim ... Sure, no problem: * It's still a command-line editor. Just like vi. * To perform multiple operations, like moving the cursor around, entering text, deleting text, searching the document, saving and loading files, requires you to switch modes. Just like vi. * It cannot take advantage of the modern computing environment -- mouse navigati…

What is/are your replacement(s) for VIM?

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#32

Post by aidos »

lutusp wrote: post #25
chrismorgan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious: have you used Vim much in the past few years? (Determine for yourself what "few" means here.)

I just installed vim and tried to use it. For those who don't live in the dark ages, vim is still a command-line editor, and it still has the classic vi modes -- one mode for loading and saving files, one mode for moving the cursor around, one mode for deleting text, one mode for typing in new text, one mode for searching, etc. etc.. In other words, it's vi with a few changes. I still can't navigate while typing, or…

Kudos on Apple Writer - but I think you're confusing easy to learn and more powerful. The modes that you complain about (and let's be honest - there are really just 2 that you use) are what make it so powerful. You don't go into another mode to perform those operations - they're already there, and just a keystroke away. You go into another mode to insert text. By making that compromise you make the system faster and more powerful but it needs to be learnt. That's where you won - you dropped the barrier to entry.

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#33

Post by djur »

lutusp wrote: post #27
danielbarla wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would actually love to hear some specific and insightful criticisms of Vim, but referring to its history is not a particularly compelling one (for me, at least). In today's terms, the above "without wasting too much paper during editing" argument translates into "with as few keystrokes as possible". In some situations, I definitely find my ability to type (or in general, to edit text) to be the bottleneck in gettin…

> I would actually love to hear some specific and insightful criticisms of Vim ... Sure, no problem: * It's still a command-line editor. Just like vi. * To perform multiple operations, like moving the cursor around, entering text, deleting text, searching the document, saving and loading files, requires you to switch modes. Just like vi. * It cannot take advantage of the modern computing environment -- mouse navigati…

How are "different fonts, text styling, page layout" relevant to a programmer's editor?

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#34

Post by djur »

lutusp wrote: post #25
chrismorgan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious: have you used Vim much in the past few years? (Determine for yourself what "few" means here.)

I just installed vim and tried to use it. For those who don't live in the dark ages, vim is still a command-line editor, and it still has the classic vi modes -- one mode for loading and saving files, one mode for moving the cursor around, one mode for deleting text, one mode for typing in new text, one mode for searching, etc. etc.. In other words, it's vi with a few changes. I still can't navigate while typing, or…

Please tell us more about your fantastic accomplishments.

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#35

Post by regularfry »

m2mdas wrote: post #20

Pasting the reply I gave in r/vim Answer to some of the points, Janus : There are divided opinions in vim community about whether distributions should be used or not. I am on the latter side. But still for just checking out I installed Janus a while ago. Yes it is slow, but it turns out that it is as slow as my then `.vimrc` configuration. I tried to track down the problem. It is because of vim's blocking behaviour d…

> Files that change: If you do external edits more frequently then I think it is time to rethink your work-flow. I think there is a common consensus that you should not run live edit in server.

It's possible this isn't what you meant, but external edits do not imply editing code live on a server.

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#37

Post by bpizzi »

> I've been using it full-time for just over three months now.

That's it: you just need to give it more time. One simply can't expect to fully climb vim's learning curve in just a quarter of a year. Your brain can't adapt so rapidly to so much new shortcuts.

> Jump to CSS selector. Jump to class. Fuzzy string matching. All these things and more are what I am used to. Vim just can't do them.

That's one example among others: there's vim's marking system for that, and your brain isn't just used to it now. You find it slow, broken and not user-friendly, but it's not really, it's just that you need to give it time to master it.

My 2c advice: it you really want to like it, keep going and give it a full year. If you think you can't give it more time, then Vim isn't for you and some commercial editors might do it.

I've been there, I know your current feeling. I'm a happy vimmer now but it hasn't been the case for something like a year. There's a reward for real vimmers: you'll never need to switch anymore to another editor, because Vim is there, powerfull, opensource, free, multi-plateform, and you know how to use it smoothly.

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#38

Post by ranza »

I feel his pain! Especially the paste thing. I've been back and forth with vim for as long as i can remember. Finally decided to switch to Sublime on my desktop and keep a stripped down version of vim for my terminal needs. I feel like Janus is doing more wrong then good. If you want to get into the mindset of vim you should ditch Janus.

Re: Vim is the worst editor, except all the other editors

#39

Post by capisce »

lutusp wrote: post #25
chrismorgan wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious: have you used Vim much in the past few years? (Determine for yourself what "few" means here.)

I just installed vim and tried to use it. For those who don't live in the dark ages, vim is still a command-line editor, and it still has the classic vi modes -- one mode for loading and saving files, one mode for moving the cursor around, one mode for deleting text, one mode for typing in new text, one mode for searching, etc. etc.. In other words, it's vi with a few changes. I still can't navigate while typing, or…

pico and nano are certainly easier to use and have a much less steep learning curve, but they can hardly match the efficiency with which I can refactor and edit code using vim
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