Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 264 posts

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#101

Post by baltcode »

venus wrote: post #70
akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

Irony, you say? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I agree with you, of course - Putin is by all accounts a monster, and he has no moral standing whatsoever. That doesn't mean he's wrong.

He is wrong in the sense that something has to be done to stop the Assad regime that has lost the confidence of a majority of Syrians from continuing to murder and torture more civilians.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#102

Post by haberman »

cdash wrote: post #93
haberman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ironic: the only reason this strike would be "against the law" is because of Putin's own veto (and China, who is probably just following suit on this one). He conveniently omits this point, because the moment the focus turns to his motivations, it would be immediately obvious how self-serving the entire piece is.

The entire point of the UN and "the law" is that Russia gets to veto the same as the US gets to veto.

That may be, but Putin is making a case against intervention while omitting his huge conflict of interest. He is making self-serving arguments under the guise of caring about lofty ideals that his own actions demonstrate he has no regard for.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#103

Post by sologoub »

coffeemug wrote: post #79
Demiurge wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can't understand it with intellect and can only believe in it (which is a classic bit of Russian poetry internalized by pretty much everyone) It's not poetry, it's a self critical fable. It's so obvious too, "you can't understand it" because it's not logical. This is in line with everyone being proud of how Russian roads are the worst in the world. This particular attitude of being exceptional, regardless if it'…

I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I get what you're saying. But you can't seriously say that Russian exceptionalism isn't used in service of rationalizing the belief that the Russians are better people than the rest of the world. Consider the popularity of Zadornov's humor -- the gist of almost every joke is that foreigners are dumber than the Russians. Also this might be nitpicking, but Americans don't typi…

Russian superiority views are a relic of the empirical past. Every empire-forming nation has that same trait - us versus barbarians.

UK has this trait also and it is well illustrated in "Great Britain".

Russia might have been a great place to live, if it weren't for rampant corruption. It's sad, but on a personal level, I just can't take the risk of raising a family there or trying to do business. In US, entrepreneurship carriers financial and psychological risks, but in Russia it carriers very real physical harm risks, in addition to vastly greater financial risks.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#105

Post by 3rd3 »

haberman wrote: post #91
akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

Also ironic: the only reason this strike would be "against the law" is because of Putin's own veto (and China, who is probably just following suit on this one). He conveniently omits this point, because the moment the focus turns to his motivations, it would be immediately obvious how self-serving the entire piece is.

No other laws in the way? Maybe he refers to his doubt about the evidence for the chemical weapons?

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#106

Post by ihsw »

light3 wrote: post #89
muerdeme wrote: post #28

Putin (or his representatives) knows his audience. This piece eschews the normal alpha bravado that I would expect from Putin in favor of a coherent argument in favor of restraint. I found myself not merely nodding along, but inspired, and I hope that we can at least agree with him on this. It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United State…

What are the chances Putin didn't write the article?

There are some grammatical and capitalization errors, and numerous comma splices (stringing similar sentence fragments together in an effort to form a coherent statement). There was also usage of very short sentences in repeated succession.

Those are mostly stylistic issues but they're indicative of non-native grasp of the English language.

Furthermore it's clearly written by someone with enough capability to express themselves eloquently and succinctly, but as mentioned it's clearly non-native.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#107

Post by eli_gottlieb »

coffeemug wrote: post #43
welder wrote: post #11

Great closing paragraph: My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to s…

Unfortunately you have to know a bit of Russian to pick up on this, but if you watch/read Russian media for a while it becomes obvious how this paragraph is a comical bit of hypocrisy. The Russians in general and Putin in particular talk all the time about how the Russian soul is exceptional, how Russia is somehow different from western democracies and has its own unique (and largely mystical) economic and political…

In a recent interview, here is how Putin characterized the difference between the American and Russian "soul". He brought up a quote by the main heroine from Gone with the Wind where she said "I can't imagine what it would be like to be hungry all the time". Putin then pointed out that something like this is a primary concern of an American soul (implying base concerns for physical comforts), while this wouldn't be a concern for the Russian soul, which allegedly is concerned with much more important spiritual matters.

It makes perfect sense. A Russian doesn't have to imagine what it's like to go hungry, he just knows from experience.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#108

Post by alan_cx »

akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

I do wonder if Russians, Arabs, Muslims, and so on feel the same way when Obama (Bush(s), Clinton, Blair, Cameron, etc) pontificates. The phrase "western hypocrisy" is not new.

What is ironic, is that oddly I prefer the unashamed way Russia acts, compared to the cover-ups and lies of the west. You know where you stand. We in the west are supposed to be better, but all we are better at really is PR. In Russia, people know what the deal is, and can deal with that one way or another. In the west people are just dismissed as silly tin foil hat people, and nothing gets done until a Snowden comes along and busts the bubble.

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#109

Post by WalterSear »

baltcode wrote: post #101
venus wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Irony, you say? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism I agree with you, of course - Putin is by all accounts a monster, and he has no moral standing whatsoever. That doesn't mean he's wrong.

He is wrong in the sense that something has to be done to stop the Assad regime that has lost the confidence of a majority of Syrians from continuing to murder and torture more civilians.

You seem to be misinformed as to >whyhttp://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAskReddit/comments/1lw8yg/why_do...

Suffice to say, the welfare of the people of Syria is the last thing on Obama's mind. Let's take a look at how well the last place he got involved in is doing these days:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/special-repor...

Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia

#110

Post by frozenport »

alan_cx wrote: post #108
akiselev wrote: post #66

"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…

I do wonder if Russians, Arabs, Muslims, and so on feel the same way when Obama (Bush(s), Clinton, Blair, Cameron, etc) pontificates. The phrase "western hypocrisy" is not new. What is ironic, is that oddly I prefer the unashamed way Russia acts, compared to the cover-ups and lies of the west. You know where you stand. We in the west are supposed to be better, but all we are better at really is PR. In Russia, people…

In Russia an anti-american sentiment is heavily associated with Putin, often the Russian opposition is quite supportive of America - the place that made the Internet and YouTube.
Post reply on HN