How much evidence do we in fact have that the rebels gassed their own people in a false-flag operation? I had heard it was a possibility, Putin seems to think it's all but certain, but I haven't studied the issue in depth.
It's a pretty common tactic. IIRC, the Nazis allegedly shelled one of their towns and used it as an excuse to invade Poland. The Soviets were rumored to have done the same with Finland.
Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
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Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#72"There is every reason to believe [sarin gas] was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists." Obama asserted something quite different in last night's address. He stated that the Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks, that documents show Syrian generals reviewing the re…
>I would tend to believe Obama because he is much more credible than Putin, and has much more to lose if he can't produce evidence to support his claims.
>Despite Putin's call for transparency, the fact remains that he is unwilling to tell the truth about what happened.
You've made quite a jump to go from one sentence arguing that Obama is more credible than Putin to (indirectly) calling Putin a liar.
From what I've read, the following claims have been made by the Obama administration [1]:
1) Possess satellite imagery showing rockets firing from a location controlled by the Syrian army.
2) Transcripts of Syrian officials telling forces to ready gas masks.
3) Transcripts of Syrian officials discussing how to handle U.N. investigators inspecting the aftermath.
If the evidence is as clear as Obama is trying to make it appear, why not have an independent body from the U.N. review the evidence? Maybe this is already in the works, but I've seen no mention of it.
[1]http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2021795842_apusuniteds...
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#73If there's "every reason to believe" it's the opposition forces and not the Syrian government in control of and using chemical weapons, what good does it do for the Syrian government to "place its chemical arsenal under international control"? How can these two statements be reconciled? Putin says: No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army…
Maybe to satisfy the stupid Americans? I am not sure what you are getting at, offering up your chemical weapons when some country that can crush you is about to attack you because they suspect that you used them even if they don't provide any proof is not admitting guilt.
Its almost like you think people who plea guilty in court are actually always truly guilty.
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#74Here's a good read regarding the Syria conflict and how Russia and other world powers are involved: http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAskReddit/comments/1lw8yg/why_do...
what all of them want are just two things: power and money
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#75"There is every reason to believe [sarin gas] was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists." Obama asserted something quite different in last night's address. He stated that the Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks, that documents show Syrian generals reviewing the re…
Aside from the rest of your comment...
>Syrian army distributed gas masks to their soldiers before the attacks
gas mask are for defense more so than for attack, giving those out is totally reasonable if they feared the insurgence could use gas. using this as an argument is playing to ignorance.
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#76"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…
While you're factually correct in every respect, most of your comment is an ad hominem attack. Putin's arguments should be considered on their merits, regardless of his, his government's, or his country's character and history.
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#77[deleted]
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#78"The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not." The irony of Putin saying this cannot be understated. This entire editorial is dripping with it. For those of you buying into his rhetoric, remember that Putin is the head of a "virtual mafia state" [1] and a government of thugs who are too busy stealing the wealth generated by Russia's natural resources to pursue the eternal dream of Russia…
It might be helpful to remember that this is merely a well written op-ed with Putin's name attached to it. It's an international relations gambit to influence the American public to consider Russia's point of view. To get bogged down by the name attached to the editorial is to miss the importance of the content.
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unfortunately you have to know a bit of Russian to pick up on this, but if you watch/read Russian media for a while it becomes obvious how this paragraph is a comical bit of hypocrisy. The Russians in general and Putin in particular talk all the time about how the Russian soul is exceptional, how Russia is somehow different from western democracies and has its own unique (and largely mystical) economic and political…
>you can't understand it with intellect and can only believe in it (which is a classic bit of Russian poetry internalized by pretty much everyone) It's not poetry, it's a self critical fable. It's so obvious too, "you can't understand it" because it's not logical. This is in line with everyone being proud of how Russian roads are the worst in the world. This particular attitude of being exceptional, regardless if it'…
I was born in the former Soviet Union, and I get what you're saying. But you can't seriously say that Russian exceptionalism isn't used in service of rationalizing the belief that the Russians are better people than the rest of the world. Consider the popularity of Zadornov's humor -- the gist of almost every joke is that foreigners are dumber than the Russians.
Also this might be nitpicking, but Americans don't typically believe that they were chosen by god as special people. They typically believe that they're special people because they themselves made it happen (which IMO is largely true).
Re: Putin: A Plea for Caution From Russia
#80If there's "every reason to believe" it's the opposition forces and not the Syrian government in control of and using chemical weapons, what good does it do for the Syrian government to "place its chemical arsenal under international control"? How can these two statements be reconciled? Putin says: No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army…
I think you can reconcile them the same way as these two statements.
> I did not shoot anyone. > You can take the gun, so I won't be able to shoot anyone.
They don't need to be reconciled because they are not in conflict.