Opposition to and problems with neckties

#1

Post by amichail » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:12 PM UTC

Opposition to and problems with neckties
en.wikipedia.org

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#2

Post by amichail » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:13 PM UTC

It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#3

Post by eguanlao » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:19 PM UTC

I wear neckties whenever the mood strikes me, and I'm a Java developer. I was well into clothing before I became a programmer. I like neckties for aesthetic reasons, and the same goes for suits and sport jackets. Yes, I've been harassed for this, but I just ignore the snide remarks. If you're a developer who has always been into elegance and grooming, then check out these blogs: http://englishcut.com/ and http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/.

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#4

Post by eguanlao » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:25 PM UTC

amichail wrote: post #2

It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.

I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#5

Post by amichail » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:28 PM UTC

eguanlao wrote: post #4

amichail wrote: post #2

It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.

I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."

A necktie serves no practical purpose. And forcing people to wear one who couldn't care less about fashion is simply a method of encouraging conformity (e.g., to get employees to do as they are told without question).

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#6

Post by seldo » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:36 PM UTC

Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose? Why are men still expected to wear fashion designed literally centuries ago?

I feel the same applies to suits, but people who (unlike me) actually wear suits assure me the designs change frequently in ways that are apparently non-obvious. All I know is those guys on 50s newsreels appear to be wearing the same thing the guys downtown are wearing today, and that's not true of basically any other popular item of clothing I can think of (hats? maybe?).

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#7

Post by amichail » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:39 PM UTC

seldo wrote: post #6

Neckties have always struck me as anachronistic, even sexist. What item of women's clothing has been around for 100 years and is still regularly worn without modification? Especially one that serves no functional purpose? Why are men still expected to wear fashion designed literally centuries ago? I feel the same applies to suits, but people who (unlike me) actually wear suits assure me the designs change frequently…

There are various levels of encouraging conformity. The necktie is by far the worst in Western culture. This is followed by formal attire.

It's all a way to keep employees in line, following orders without question.

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#8

Post by iron_ball » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:40 PM UTC

amichail wrote: post #5

eguanlao wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."

A necktie serves no practical purpose. And forcing people to wear one who couldn't care less about fashion is simply a method of encouraging conformity (e.g., to get employees to do as they are told without question).

Agreed, 100%. However, we enjoy wearing plenty of things which have no practical purpose; and people who wish to wear neckties should be able to wear them without being weighted down by the IBM corporate-machine stereotype. One may be a hacker without wearing jeans, sneakers, and a BSDemon tee; one may even be a hacker while dressed to the nines.

As for neckties being "sexist" -- have you asked a woman how she feels about high heels?

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#9

Post by eguanlao » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:43 PM UTC

amichail wrote: post #5

eguanlao wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that at all. I don't see how a knotted piece of silk that completes a certain sartorial ensemble; and that comes in a variety of colours, patterns, and textures; discourages independent thought and creativity... especially creativity. Maybe you're associating it with stuffy "suits"...? It's like saying, "all Asians are good at math," "all white men can't dance," and "all Italians are in the Mafia."

A necktie serves no practical purpose. And forcing people to wear one who couldn't care less about fashion is simply a method of encouraging conformity (e.g., to get employees to do as they are told without question).

Actually, it does serve a practical purpose: to bring attention to one's face. Unfortunately, you don't see/get that. And that's OK because not everyone gets aesthetics, design, colour harmony, lines, etc. It's just like not everyone is cut out for programming, or not everyone is naturally good at dancing.

Also, there's a difference between fashion and style. Fashion is what's available; style is what you choose. The current fashion is t-shirt, jeans, and sneakers. I'm not fashionable--I don't wear that ensemble. Starting very young, I cultivated a different taste.

"...simply a method of encouraging conformity and respect for authority." Hmmm... Man, you must really hate ties... so much that you can't see from other perspectives. This kind of thinking reminds me of hatred towards other races, people of a different sexual orientation, etc.

I'm all for freedom. "Freedom" is such a powerful word. Hey, you can/may wear whatever you want. I'm going to go to work in suits, sport jackets, pressed trousers, etc. I love the freedom of choice, and I hope others feel the same way. Here's to freedom!

Re: Opposition to and problems with neckties

#10

Post by eguanlao » Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 11:51 PM UTC

amichail wrote: post #2

It's hard to see neckties as anything more than a way to discourage independent thought and creativity.

I thought I'd share this thread with my favourite gentlemen's clothing forum: http://askandyaboutclothes.com/forum/showthread.php?p=944058

The men who frequent these fora are not those fashionistas you are probably thinking of. They range from developers to lawyers to university professors, and we all have one thing in common: a love for fine, gentlemen's clothing. I'm talking about bespoke tailoring, handcrafted shoes, seven-fold ties, etc. Yes, old-school tailors still exist--visit my tailor's Web site if you're one of the very few here who's interested in learning more: http://paulchangcustomtailors.com/.