Apple stock dropping after a keynote is not uncommon. I hear this dismissal of Apple products from techies nearly every time they announce anything. It's such a common phenomena that John Gruber calls it "claim chowder". People at one time thought the iPod mini was too expensive and that nobody would want it, and they considered the iPad little more than a "big iPod touch" that sounded like a feminine hygiene product (seriously). Apple is pretty good at understanding what regular people want, and techies tend not to be so understanding. The claim that reaction to the presentation was a "collective meh" is unfounded.
Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
61–70 of 88 posts
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#62Keep in mind what Apple has been doing with the proceeds of its amazing cash cow: - smart moves to economize the supply chain - attempting to simplify/unify its various OSes. - hinting at a lower price point future (inevitable). - focusing on patented industrial design (lightning connector, new mac pro, etc.) - taking away carrier margins (iMessage) - notably ignoring "enterprise users" and focusing on making consume…
Yes, it's amazing how much Android has lagged, releasing best-in-class phones like the HTC Once and Sony Xperia Z1 that have no match in the iOS world (and that cost the same as Apple's 'low-end' 5C). As well as inexpensive mid-range products like the Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 making modern well-made smartphones and tablets accessible to all. Not to mention the open ecosytem and OS that all kinds of companies are innovatin…
I think the previous commentor's thoughts may have been correct a few years back. The most recent generation of Android phones and tablets are fantastic. At $230 for the Nexus 7, both the iPad mini and iPad just don't make any sense to purchase, short of the buyer already having a huge library of iOS apps.
Apple still has great potential. There should be a formidable alternative to Android even if it is a closed platform.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#63> Apple in time will need to move away from the iPhone and iPad, as they will become a commodity. As someone who already owns a Nexus 4 and a 1st gen Nexus 7 they are already a commodity, I bought my N4 for half what an iPhone 5 costs. The only thing that keeps Apple even remotely price comparable on the iPhone is that people mostly buy a smart phone on contract so they see roughly the same price per month (but the c…
Google doesn't make any money off their Nexus devices. They sell them close to cost. Unless Apple is planning to convert itself into an advertising company (like Google), I don't think holding out the Nexus branded devices as an example to follow is reasonable. Samsung is really the only player making significant money in the Android space. I think it makes more sense to look at what they are doing.
It's now written on the wall for everyone to see that devices will fall in price in the next decade and with it will go profit margins, money will be made by volume of sales, Samsung is just where like Nokia once was in this place, Google just want to accelerate that because it makes business sense to them.
Apple already realized that as their recent announcement demonstrated.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#64The stock pretty much always falls after Apple announce something. I assume the reasons are complex — anything new is a risk, anything old is a lower-margin version. Historically, you cannot make any accurate predictions of Apple's success or failure based on The Market's reaction to a keynote. That leaves the other point: "Meh". Yes, I'm sure everyone wants Apple to announce something groundbreaking and industry def…
Using the stock market as a judge is tricky. I agree that the price of AAPL is a poor indicator of how their products will perform in the market is folly. However, Steve Ballmer not moving MSFT in ten years really was a problem.
It is not unprecedented for Apple to release what appears to be an incremental revision of a product (or even a "worse" one) to great commercial success, and that is probably what will happen with the 5C. This tends to happen when the product in question is not "for" the pundit class, who in their write-ups see the product's value proposition differently than the people who end up buying it in droves. To put it diplomatically.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you've been around long enough, you have seen many people portend Apple's doom. Sometimes they even have arguments that make a lot of sense, which is nice. But you learn to ignore it, because none of it has come true so far.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#65Keep in mind what Apple has been doing with the proceeds of its amazing cash cow: - smart moves to economize the supply chain - attempting to simplify/unify its various OSes. - hinting at a lower price point future (inevitable). - focusing on patented industrial design (lightning connector, new mac pro, etc.) - taking away carrier margins (iMessage) - notably ignoring "enterprise users" and focusing on making consume…
Have you ever actually used a device with Android 4.2/3? When I have to use my work iOS device I shudder.
I live in a Android dominate part of the country and by the time carriers, other than AT&T (which has poor coverage), rolled out Apple devices Android hat gotten out its painful stage and users are not migrating...
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#66> Apple in time will need to move away from the iPhone and iPad, as they will become a commodity. As someone who already owns a Nexus 4 and a 1st gen Nexus 7 they are already a commodity, I bought my N4 for half what an iPhone 5 costs. The only thing that keeps Apple even remotely price comparable on the iPhone is that people mostly buy a smart phone on contract so they see roughly the same price per month (but the c…
Google doesn't make any money off their Nexus devices. They sell them close to cost. Unless Apple is planning to convert itself into an advertising company (like Google), I don't think holding out the Nexus branded devices as an example to follow is reasonable. Samsung is really the only player making significant money in the Android space. I think it makes more sense to look at what they are doing.
My point is that Apple is going to struggle to compete against commoditized devices precisely because Google doesn't care about profit on the actual device, Samsung are making money with Android but largely by using the Apple model (high quality hardware, tightly integrated software and a butt-load of advertising).
While Samsung is a threat to Apple they are largely on a level playing field, Google with the Nexus devices isn't even on the same playing field and that was my whole point.
As Apple how do you compete with a Nexus 4 (for example) (which is about get refresh again and the rumour is 1920x1200 screen, stupid fast hardware yada yada).
You can't compete on price as you have to make money on the device and a price war when you are at £500 and your competitor is at £200 is going to hurt (plus Apple is seen as a luxury marque and ironically dropping the price may make the product less desirable to the type of consumer who wants to spend £500 on a mobile, that is why the 5C is interesting).
You can't compete on advertising, Google is the worlds largest Internet advertising platform.
You can't compete on hardware features, you will go ahead perhaps briefly but the Android manufacturers will catch up or leap-frog past again almost immediately (iPhone 5S is impressive hardware but anyone want to bet that there won't be a faster Android device by Christmas?).
It's pretty much neck and neck on brand (Apple was #2 most valuable brand, Google was #4 (worth noting both where above Microsoft, Intel and Samsung) http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2012/10/02/business/02adco... .
So what you have left is reputation (Apple does really well here) brand loyalty and perceived value all of which Apple does well with but the problem with these is that they will get you the percentage of the market that cares about these things (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/09/05/apple-smartphone-loya... is interesting for example, people are far more loyal to their carrier than they are their hardware manufacturer) and the people who identify with your product and that to me sounds like Mac vs PC all over again and Mac ended up with what 10% of the market (admittedly a very profitable 10%).
All this is of course my opinion and I'm not saying the sky is falling on Apple (it's clearly not) but I will be really curious to see what they do over the next few years.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it's amazing how much Android has lagged, releasing best-in-class phones like the HTC Once and Sony Xperia Z1 that have no match in the iOS world (and that cost the same as Apple's 'low-end' 5C). As well as inexpensive mid-range products like the Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 making modern well-made smartphones and tablets accessible to all. Not to mention the open ecosytem and OS that all kinds of companies are innovatin…
so what are the sales numbers of the cited best-in-class phones? HTC in particular seems like a dead man walking.
We were discussing quality and innovation. If you want to talk sales, Android smartphones had nearly 5x the sales of iOS smartphones last quarter.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#68> Apple in time will need to move away from the iPhone and iPad, as they will become a commodity. As someone who already owns a Nexus 4 and a 1st gen Nexus 7 they are already a commodity, I bought my N4 for half what an iPhone 5 costs. The only thing that keeps Apple even remotely price comparable on the iPhone is that people mostly buy a smart phone on contract so they see roughly the same price per month (but the c…
> As someone who already owns a Nexus 4 and a 1st gen Nexus 7 they are already a > commodity, I bought my N4 for half what an iPhone 5 costs. Good for you. Premium products are not for everyone. Part of the Apple premium products is for example that I can simply walk into the next Apple Store to get support in case of any problems. From my home, I can reach two Apple Stores by public transport in about 30 minutes, fo…
> Good for you. Premium products are not for everyone.
Ouch, you are off course right, my nexus 4 only has 1280x768 screen vs the 960x640 screen in your 4S and as a non-premium product owner I only get 110% the talktime and a piddling 200% standby time plus your premium product has a full 512Mb RAM vs the miniscule 2Gb in my non-premium product and the 0.3 megapixel front camera vs the 1.3megapixel camera in mine is just outstanding luckily though your 800Mhz dual core A9 will annihilate my quad core 1500Mhz Krait.
Luckily you will be able to upgrade to the 5S which will then have a glorious 1136x640 screen vs the 1280x768 in the current (and about to be replaced) N4.
> my iPhone 4S with a new 4S for about 280 USD; I had bought the iPhone 4S for about USD 960
Good customer service, so you paid 1240 for two 4S's, I can buy 6 N4's for that and still have 40 change (though this is disingenuous as they just dropped the price so call it 4 and a good night out).
Better hardware, less than half the price, more open platform and I can run it on giffgaff so for £200 plus £15 a month payg I get state of the art hardware plus 400 minutes, unlimited internet, unlimited texts and I can upgrade whenever I want.
That sounds premium to me.
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google doesn't make any money off their Nexus devices. They sell them close to cost. Unless Apple is planning to convert itself into an advertising company (like Google), I don't think holding out the Nexus branded devices as an example to follow is reasonable. Samsung is really the only player making significant money in the Android space. I think it makes more sense to look at what they are doing.
My point is that Apple is going to struggle to compete against commoditized devices precisely because Google doesn't care about profit on the actual device, Samsung are making money with Android but largely by using the Apple model (high quality hardware, tightly integrated software and a butt-load of advertising). While Samsung is a threat to Apple they are largely on a level playing field, Google with the Nexus dev…
[deleted]
Re: Apple’s “Windows 95″ Problem
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it's amazing how much Android has lagged, releasing best-in-class phones like the HTC Once and Sony Xperia Z1 that have no match in the iOS world (and that cost the same as Apple's 'low-end' 5C). As well as inexpensive mid-range products like the Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 making modern well-made smartphones and tablets accessible to all. Not to mention the open ecosytem and OS that all kinds of companies are innovatin…
I think the previous commentor's thoughts may have been correct a few years back. The most recent generation of Android phones and tablets are fantastic. At $230 for the Nexus 7, both the iPad mini and iPad just don't make any sense to purchase, short of the buyer already having a huge library of iOS apps. Apple still has great potential. There should be a formidable alternative to Android even if it is a closed plat…
I haven't used the latest version of the Nexus 7, but the previous version is not even comparable to the iPad in terms of usability for web browsing.