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Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

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Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#61

Post by abenga »

ihnorton wrote: post #24
PakG1 wrote: post #15

I don't claim to understand African issues very well, so take my comments with the grain of salt that I'm very ignorant. The civil wars that happen in certain African nations are troubling. But what was more troubling to me was reading news how factions would take control by poisoning wells that provided water for citizens. It was unthinkable to me that someone could actually do that, especially in certain areas wher…

Kenya itself has been relatively stable and relatively peaceful for several decades. (there was some instability after an election in 2007, and there are simmering issues around the periphery - LRA in Uganda, fiefs in Somalia, continual intervention by Ethiopia in Somalia, North/South Sudan skirmishes).

Actually it's the Kenyan military that has managed to dislodge Al Shabaab from significant swarths of Southern Somalia (up to their Mogadishu, and including the largest port, Kismayu). Ethiopia generally used to roll in, depose the warlord they didn't like, then head on back home. The Kenyan military tried to stabilize the region.

It's not all altruism though, the intention was to create a buffer near the Kenyan border as the country intends to build a large port in Lamu, a coastal town nearer Somalia than Mombasa, the current main port.

*Edit: Minor tense correction.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#62

Post by frozenport »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #60
memset wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your comment trying to say?

I took it to be reflexive satire based on a deep cynicism of anything 'good' being allowed to benefit the African people. Africa is complex, it's broken, and it is rich in resources. People from outside Africa have been exploiting it since wooden ships took its people to be their slaves to the present day where China signs "exclusive" mineral contracts with thugs. I heard a little cry of anguish that the poster has t…

Resource thing is not quite true, parts of sub-saharan Africa have valuable resources and parts don't. Resources play a larger factor in African economies because they have little else. For example, while South Africa has gold mines but this place appears to lack water.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#64

Post by PakG1 »

chad_oliver wrote: post #18
PakG1 wrote: post #15

I don't claim to understand African issues very well, so take my comments with the grain of salt that I'm very ignorant. The civil wars that happen in certain African nations are troubling. But what was more troubling to me was reading news how factions would take control by poisoning wells that provided water for citizens. It was unthinkable to me that someone could actually do that, especially in certain areas wher…

You raise some important issues, but if anything I actually think that this aquifer is going to reduce the conflict in this area. The civil wars, rape, and poisoning are all symptoms of a deeper illness: poverty. Africans aren't more corrupt or warlike than anyone else, they're just poorer and therefore more desperate. Conflict minerals (diamonds, coltan, etc) fuel conflict because they are easy to control. It only t…

In contrast, an aquifer is hard to control: each liter of water isn't worth that much, and Kenya doesn't have the infrastructure to export water anyway.

My original question was what if these water supplies are found in areas of conflict. In such scenarios, transport is not an issue. And the question remains because although they wouldn't put prices on a liter of water, I'd say it's because the water is invaluable, not because the value is low. If it weren't so, it wouldn't be worth it to poison wells in the first place.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#65

Post by chrischen »

smtddr wrote: post #58
chrischen wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's one thing to say something about a country(France & Prussia), it's another thing to talk about a race(Africans). Africa is a continent. There are white Africans. If I had said, black people, that would be different, however I did not. I did not because the OP mentioned Africans and I was only pointing out that his statement about a generalization of an entire continent (he implied most Africans cannot be diffe…

I won't be in this thread after this. I already see the rabbit-hole falling has begun. Since we can actually measure & look at people in a very non-debatable way, you can get unquestionable & unbias data on how tall people are and the color of their skin. You cannot debate 6-foot tall versus 7-foot tall. We've(first-world at least) all agreed on what is a ruler. 12 inches is 12 inches. You also cannot debate the colo…

Again, I did not imply anything racist. I did not make any generalizations, about a race, a country, or EVEN a continent! Please listen to what I'm saying!

Just because you constantly assert I'm a racist without actually listening to the substance and nuance of anything I have said does not make me a racist.

Please, specifically point out what statement I said was a generalization about a race?

Just because I do not agree with the OP, does not mean I agree with the opposite. Just like how if you're not with the US on Iraq does not mean you are with the terrorists.

My question "how do you know?" is simply a thought experiment showing the fallacy in the OP's assertion that in fact Africans are not more corrupt or warlike than anyone else. It is totally possible they are. He does not know, nor do I. The point is that he doesn't know anymore than I do. I am not, and have never, stated Africans are more corrupt or warlike either! If I did in fact, state this, please point this out otherwise I will be inadvertently spreading racist beliefs (which I do not. I am totally on your side with this. Let's work together okay?).

The OP is the one who made a generalization (Africans are not more corrupt or warlike than other people). All I did was question his generalization. He could have also said "Africans are not any more black than other people." That one is easier to verify that he is wrong, so if I pointed that out by saying "how do you know?" I would have gotten many more up votes.

By ignoring the possibility that Africans might have genetic, cultural, societal, or other factors causing the corruption and "warlike" is doing a disservice to the issue, reason, and scientific method.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#66

Post by PakG1 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #17
PakG1 wrote: post #15

I don't claim to understand African issues very well, so take my comments with the grain of salt that I'm very ignorant. The civil wars that happen in certain African nations are troubling. But what was more troubling to me was reading news how factions would take control by poisoning wells that provided water for citizens. It was unthinkable to me that someone could actually do that, especially in certain areas wher…

> It was unthinkable to me that someone could actually do that, especially in certain areas where water was scarce. What would be the point of poisoning a well that nobody needed?

Point taken, but I think you know what I meant. :P

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#67

Post by riffraff »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #36

Fantastic! Let's concoct some overly optimistic growth statistics for how this will stimulate the Kenyan economy. Let's say 19% for the first 10 years, then 15% for 10 more, then 12% for the next five. Based on those fudged figures, we'll convince the government to take on excessive debt to pay for water development, etc. projects. Since the figures are fudged, and since we'll do this hand in hand with local elites /…

fwiw, I can tell you haven't watched hans rosling recently either.

We seem to have lost perception of it, but with all the crappy meddling from businesses, UN, ill-managed or bad willed NGOs etc.. life expectancy in sub saharian africa has doubled in the last fifty years, infant mortality has halved or more and many nice things have been happening along the horrible ones.

I do not care for the new iPhone though, that may explain my different world perception.

Re: Huge water reserve discovered in Kenya

#70

Post by riffraff »

icoder wrote: post #56
JulienSchmidt wrote: post #39

Exclusive rights on this reserve bought by Nestlé in 3.. 2.. 1..? http://www.worldcrunch.com/poisoning-well-nestl-accused-expl...

This was exactly my thought after having seen a documentary about how Nestle does business

which documentary? I'm always on the lookout for good documntaries.
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