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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#531

Post by hackinthebochs »

asdasf wrote: post #513
hackinthebochs wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree with this line of reasoning. The words are not irrelevant. The words "make me a sandwich" aren't powerful because someone of the majority (in, say, a school context) said it, but because of the wider implication that that's a woman's place--making a sandwich for a man. In fact, these sorts of words can be used by people who have little power in a given context because they derive their power from the wi…

You are welcome to your opinion, but you aren't welcome to try to force me to accept it as fact. I've seen no evidence to support your interpretation, and all my experience has shown the opposite. What wider implications make the millions of other taunts adolescents hurl at each other effective? Have you spoken to a high school girl before? Do you actually think they believe there is some "woman's place" making a san…

I, too, was a child, and so I have my own counter-anecdotes. Most taunts from kids don't have wider cultural implications. Sexist insults are an exception--as are racist insults, you certainly wouldn't be so dense as to claim that a kid calling another black kid a nigger derives its power from 4th-grade-power-dynamics would you?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#532

Post by hacker789 »

npsimons wrote: post #399
hacker789 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must protect the fairer sex at all costs. This use of "privilege" as a targeted weapon to silence specific demographics has to stop. Women in the western world have always been among the safest, most privileged people on Earth. This entire thread, in fact, has been a shining example of female privilege. No one cares that women soundly outnumber men in university admission, and university graduation, and even high…

We must protect the fairer sex at all costs. Where, exactly, did you find this quote? Because I can't find it in the OP, or the post you are replying to. I'd hate to think you might have pulled a strawman so blatantly out of thin air . . . Oh, and thanks for demonstrating exactly the points the GP was trying to make.

He didn't literally use those words, and my intent wasn't to trick anyone into thinking he was literally using those words.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#533

Post by javert »

derleth wrote: post #380
javert wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people not learning to read does not follow from having privatized education. If in 100 years the government provided clothing, and I advocated privatizing clothing, you'd say, "Becuase poor people don't need to wear clothes!" Where I'm from (in the US), many poor people _don't_ achieve a basically acceptable level of education, because the public schools don't ultimately serve them well for various reasons, and…

> Poor people not learning to read does not follow from having privatized education. It has in the past. Which is my point.

I don't agree that it has in the past.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#534

Post by Tycho »

orclev wrote: post #527
nollidge wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/privilege > 1. a right, immunity, or benefit enjoyed only by a person beyond the advantages of most Regardless, even if I and others called it "cronut", that doesn't invalidate the concept. So yours and Tycho's argument-from-terminology is just a distraction, and fails to even address the substance of my complaint.

The fundamental difference is that a privilege is something given while an advantage can be something inherent. Privilege isn't something you're born with, it's something someone else has given you (and there's a strong implication of it being earned rather than simply handed out). Language is important, it does no one any good to try to subvert a word to a new and contradictory use because it paints your argument in…

It's so irritating I pretty much tune out whenever the word comes up. And then there is the oxymoronic 'underprivileged' to contend with.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#535

Post by highstep »

ForrestN wrote: post #504
highstep wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"cognitive deficiency"??? Please consider the possibility that just because someone else's mind doesn't excel in the same way yours does, it doesn't necessarily mean their mind is deficient! I believe your choice of words demonstrates well the bias that is at the root of the problem we are discussing. IMO nerd superiority is the most unbecoming pervasive trait found in the tech industry.

I think you may have missed my point; I think the idea that women have any sort of cognitive deficiency is absurd. I believe that the reason there are so few women in tech has to do with systemic disincentives, rather than that they "aren't good at it" or "don't like it."

I see. I'm sorry that I misunderstood you.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#536

Post by omni »

jessedhillon wrote: post #422
FatGuyInACoat wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post REALLY isn't going like you thought it would, is it?

I think your comment reveals more about you than me. Do you think people only post to flatter their own egos, or that the purpose of posting is vanity? Going by votes, many more people find my comment helpful, additive or interesting than those who had some criticism. It began a discussion so that was a bonus: human interaction. I learned that I was wrong as other people made good counterpoints. So what's the problem…

> Going by votes, many more people find my comment helpful, additive or interesting than those who had some criticism.

Everyone on this site can upvote, but not everyone can downvote, so this is not necessarily true.

Oh, also, you're an ass.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#537

Post by derleth »

javert wrote: post #533
derleth wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poor people not learning to read does not follow from having privatized education. It has in the past. Which is my point.

I don't agree that it has in the past.

> I don't agree that it has in the past.

Good for you. The rest of us can look at history with less bias on this subject.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#538

Post by [deleted] »

omni wrote: post #536
jessedhillon wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your comment reveals more about you than me. Do you think people only post to flatter their own egos, or that the purpose of posting is vanity? Going by votes, many more people find my comment helpful, additive or interesting than those who had some criticism. It began a discussion so that was a bonus: human interaction. I learned that I was wrong as other people made good counterpoints. So what's the problem…

> Going by votes, many more people find my comment helpful, additive or interesting than those who had some criticism. Everyone on this site can upvote, but not everyone can downvote, so this is not necessarily true. Oh, also, you're an ass.

[deleted]

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#539

Post by derleth »

RyanMcGreal wrote: post #353

The entitled and largely unconscious male privilege in most of these HN comments is pretty hard to stomach against the large and steadily-accumulating picture of just how very different this industry presents itself to men and to women. Just because you don't directly experience or see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just because you haven't been (consciously) chauvinistic to a woman doesn't mean women don't experi…

On the flip side, the people on your side need to stop thinking privilege is absolute instead of relative to context, and stop imagining that individuals can be judged based on what group they've placed them into. Yes, even if those things are true statistically, that doesn't make them true for every individual.

Also, feminists need to stop being so fucking transphobic. It's a major issue and it is not being addressed.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#540

Post by derleth »

rthomas6 wrote: post #450
hacker789 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must protect the fairer sex at all costs. This use of "privilege" as a targeted weapon to silence specific demographics has to stop. Women in the western world have always been among the safest, most privileged people on Earth. This entire thread, in fact, has been a shining example of female privilege. No one cares that women soundly outnumber men in university admission, and university graduation, and even high…

ALL of your comments are about men's rights. I think I should make some writeup for responses to MRAs, similar to how you have done for responses to feminist sentiments, because I think I understand the worldview and bought into it myself for a long time. Of course the response might not be perfect this time around, but I can perfect it incrementally. The first thing that is crucial to understand is that feminism its…

TERFs go way beyond Tumblr, and the fact you likely don't know what TERF means is a big part of the problem.
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