Live data from Hacker News

To my daughter's high school programming teacher

usenix.org

311–320 of 596 posts

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#311
> I suggested that she talk to you. I offered to talk to you. I offered to come talk to the class. I offered to send one of my male friends, perhaps a well-known local programmer, to go talk to the class. Finally, my daughter decided to plow through, finish the class, and avoid all her classmates.

Why oh why did they not bring it up with the school?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullying is violence, and I wonder how you know there was no rape.

You're right, i completely discounted the possibility of female-female rape. I'm still pretty confident, but I take back the definitely. And I was using violence to mean physical injury, sorry if you were confused. I think it shouldn't be an unrealistic goal to have high schools where no one is raped or physically assaulted, I'm very confident i was at one, and I think that people who consider that so outlandish a su…

And now I should apologize, because I realized I was thinking only of the student body when we did have some male teachers. So although I would be shocked to learn of any incidents, it is not as impossible as I said.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#313
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think JavaScript fits the bill. I never took programming in high school, so maybe I'm setting my sights low...but even with a well developed curriculum, it's hard to imagine that the class gets very far. Whereas with JavaScript, they can literally start executing code as soon as they open their browsers. I think that makes up, at least a little, of the time lost in not having as mature of a curriculum. But I think…

I'd tend to agree with you. But the problem of teaching it still remains. While it'd be great for dedicated teachers at each school to create a flexible, Javascript-based curriculum built around online courses and projects, I think the reality is that very few would have the time, energy, or motivation to do so. So far as I know, there don't exist very many Javascript textbooks aimed at the high school, middle school…

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6358970 for my previous comment about why I chose VB (I'm a teacher and was a developer)

The questions/problems that the exam board sets (considering the number of hours the students get to solve them in) are really suited to VB, or another Visual based language. What I'm trying to say is that the language chosen also has to fit the requirements of the exam board, as the students, school and myself are all judged by our results (GCSE grade etc).

Edited: changed wording for clarity

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#314
post #305
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, high school sucks in general. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't care.

Sure, but care about the right things, and not construct a gednder issue where thete isn't one. Do you think gender issues are the most important problem schools are facing?

There's a gender issue in the balances of sexes as reported in the article.

I don't know how American schools work, so I can't comment on your question.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#315

I would of posted this in her comment section, but the requirements for signing up are beyond the pale of acceptable. "Thanks to my career, my daughter's Facebook friends list includes Linux conference organizers, an ARM developer and Linux kernel contributor, open source advocates, and other tech journalists." I, am so jealous right now. "but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her progra…

>I was furious when I was confronted for the reason. Can you reword this sentence? I can't figure out what you mean.

He's upset that men are naturally stronger than women and female orderlies would delegate the heavy lifting to male co-workers as their preferred tool. At least that's what I gathered.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#316
> And then the threats of violence started: "The author of this article is a whiny bitch and needs a good beating to be put in her place." Ten minutes later, the rape threats began, and I shut down our comments site-wide. And then the emails started...

Seriously? I am thinking a little exaggeration. I don't think trolls would send e-mails, what is the point if noone reads your trolling.

And what is the fault of the teacher (other than visual basic). "Guys, please don't harass this girl", yeah tell that to a bunch of boys and see how that works. I don't think students would just openly harass her. He might be a bad teacher but harassments is not his fault.

If there is one to blame, I would blame the parents. Didn't he researched the school before applying her daughter? Doesn't her daughter already above high school programming?

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#317

I would of posted this in her comment section, but the requirements for signing up are beyond the pale of acceptable. "Thanks to my career, my daughter's Facebook friends list includes Linux conference organizers, an ARM developer and Linux kernel contributor, open source advocates, and other tech journalists." I, am so jealous right now. "but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her progra…

Minorities(race/color/religion/gender etc) definitely suffer harassment and discrimination of all kinds.

But your point on liberty is spot on.

I have a feeling if you were to get rid of this harassment and discrimination thing overnight. It would make negligible impact to ratio of representation which existed before.

>>Because women are free to do what they want, and they're choosing not to. This discrepancy manifests everywhere. More deeply in countries with a focus on personal liberty.

In countries with personal liberty you will suddenly have new sets of problems. You can't blame anybody or anything for your failures, and that's a bad situation to be in. You are no longer the victim or the under dog and no one sympathizes with you anymore.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#318
When I read articles like these I often get the impression that we don't have the full story.

How do we go from "After she finished, she'd help classmates who were behind or struggling in class" to "my daughter emailed to tell me that the boys in her class were harassing her"? Those two statements are one sentence apart.

I was in a technical cursus in high school, there was exactly one (1) girl in the class. And not for a single course, for all the classes. I don't remember her being harassed, but I can't speak for her obviously.

I'm not saying that "she asked for it" or anything equally terrible, I'm just curious to know how things degraded seemingly very quickly? It seems important to understand what's the core issue here.

I'm obviously not very familiar with US education, maybe the culture is just different over here.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#319
post #300
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is it easier to get neat results in JS but it has a very low barrier to entry. Everyone uses the internet and is just a shortcut away from executing javascript code in console of their favorite browser on a live page. That and the language itself is very "loose" when it comes to rules and strictness. It just gets the work done. Nothing like cpp for example. Now it can be both good thing because the results a…

I'm a IT/Computing teacher in the UK. We've only just started to teach Computer Science recently and although I was a developer before retraining as a teacher I chose Visual Basic. Why? Well, we don't have to pay to install it, our technicians are happy to install it, the GUI design stuff is easy for students to use, I think it is easy to learn quickly and most importantly it allows our students to get high marks eas…

This is exactly the scenario I was guessing led to the choice of VB. I'm also going to agree with many of the comments saying Javascript might not be a great first language for new CS students.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#320
Ok harassing is out of line and as a teacher he should have intervened. WE all agree on that.

Pointing out that the reason the other students were saying that is because of envy that she is so far ahead of them should have been enough.

But talking about the low numbers of women and lack of diversity in IT is like saying we should treat women special because there's not many in our field.

We should treat the like a fellow human being and colleague but stop making us idolize women, that rubs me the wrong way.

Bottom line the teacher had no passion for programming and shouldn't have been teaching in the first place.

Post reply on HN