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To my daughter's high school programming teacher

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Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#61

Post by Nursie »

jessedhillon wrote: post #41
bangbang wrote: post #9

I cringe reading this. Since when it is alright to tell teachers how to do their job in bullet pointed letters? * Be an adult and talk about any issues, complements or concerns during the class. * Talk with them in person or on the phone. * If you wish, post to your blog after the issues have been resolved. To put a global context on the situation should be supported with evidence as it pertains to life as a women in…

One time in college, I went to a busy ice cream restaurant with some friends of mine (Fenton's in Emeryville). After entering, we saw there was just one single open table, so we went and put our jackets down on it and then got into line. After getting our ice cream we went back to the table only to find our jackets gone and some fat people sitting there, eating ice cream with their fat kids. When I asked where our ja…

The system doesn't work if everyone reserves a table, it really grinds my gears when people do that in fast food joints etc. You don't need the table at that moment, people don't take long to eat there, you're bringing down the efficiency of the place by doing that.

(sorry, pet hate...)

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#63

Post by peter-fogg »

[deleted] wrote: post #36
grandalf wrote: post #6

I think the key point is having a zero harassment policy. It should not matter if the victim/subject of the harassment appears to be tolerating it (or even enjoying the attention). Chances are he/she is just being a good sport and is socially intimidated. The worst thing about harassment culture (even when it's largely good-natured) is that it creates and reinforces a power dynamic and subtle "law of the jungle" stat…

[deleted]

Yes, none of the teams you've worked on have needed any explicit bans on behavior that's considered unacceptable in society. That's because you've worked on teams with adult humans (maybe assuming here), who don't need to be told the rules. High school kids still need some reminders that there is a normal way of interacting with others, like not suggesting that the only girl in the class be relegated to the kitchen. A bit of extra regulation is absolutely called for among teenagers.

That being said, your general point is good -- absolutist policies like zero-tolerance rarely work well, simply because human behavior is complicated and difficult for the policy maker to predict in advance.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#64

Post by glesica »

Pxtl wrote: post #43

Maybe it's an age thing, but is it just me or is this phenomenon really new? When I was a kid, geeks were inclusive. Weird and horny and therefore prone to awkward creepiness, but not hostile . Was it always like this and I just need to "check my privilege" as a dude or has the 4chanification of geek culture invaded real life? And as for the VB, VB.Net is actually an okay language if you expose them to modern feature…

The money probably has something to do with it. In the distant past (80s, 90s, earlier I'm sure) there perhaps wasn't quite the connection between computer programming and money in the eyes of the general population. Of course there were the Jobs-types and such, but the whole thing really moved into the public consciousness in the early 2000s I think. This has, perhaps (this whole comment should be read as speculation that seems reasonable to me) driven up the level of competition and general testosterone and brought in people who are less likely to see themselves as underdogs and more likely to look on their "competitors" (classmates) with disdain.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#65

Post by danso »

garretruh wrote: post #22
danso wrote: post #2

Ugh...I saw the title and had positive expectations because usually, it seems, letters to high school teachers are positive, as in: "My teenage child was depressed but your class made her love school again, etc. etc." A couple of takeaways: 1. The fact that the OP's daughter signed up for programming class because she wanted to impress her parent is truly a parenting win. Not just for programming, but anything , at t…

With regards to your third point: Is there a modern (or better suited for introductory courses) language that has the kind of curriculums built around it that VB and Java do? Codecademy and the like are awesome for independent learning and exploration, but it doesn't work for classroom instruction. There don't seem to be many curriculums designed around modern, web-focused languages like Ruby or Javascript that your…

I think JavaScript fits the bill.

I never took programming in high school, so maybe I'm setting my sights low...but even with a well developed curriculum, it's hard to imagine that the class gets very far.

Whereas with JavaScript, they can literally start executing code as soon as they open their browsers. I think that makes up, at least a little, of the time lost in not having as mature of a curriculum.

But I think the big win with JS is opportunity. Whatever crappy program they might come up with, they can immediately show it to their classmates and also to any friends or family with a simple link...it's not quite as easy to distribute a VB or other compiled executable. This kind of sharing makes programming...I would think...much more dynamic and lively.

And in addition to that, they get some web development experience...which is handy now and likely to be useful in 5 years. Whereas with VB, and most other programming languages...it's possible to learn them without gaining any hands-on experience with the Web.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#66

Post by peter-fogg »

gemma wrote: post #60
cookiecaper wrote: post #15

So, was this article about the student's experience or the mother's? Because it reads like it's about the mother. The guys in class suggested that their peer go make a sandwich. That's the only accusation actually made against the class and the teacher. While I don't endorse such teasing, it's certainly in no way specific to computer programming, and it's not anything like the intensity one would expect when trolls f…

> Minority entities will be teased practically any time they exist, regardless of sector or age, and they need to be taught to handle it well. Yeah? So this high school programming class isn't so much a programming class as a crash course in coping mechanisms for gender-based harassment? Please. It's the educator's job to create a safe space for, you know, education--for every student in the class, not just the privi…

Thank you. If we accept discrimination of minorities as inevitable, then it will be.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#67

Post by pyj »

Pxtl wrote: post #47
pyj wrote: post #32

I got a feeling that the OP was ranting due to her own hurt feelings rather than her daughter's. I failed to see anything out of the extraordinary that made the teacher deserve such harsh criticism. Yes she was harassed by some boys, I agree that sucks and the teacher should do something about it. I have a baby daughter my self and can imagine the feelings if I heard she got harassed by her schoolmates, but then I wo…

> I got a feeling that the OP was ranting due to her own hurt feelings rather than her daughter's. I failed to see anything out of the extraordinary that made the teacher deserve such harsh criticism. The classroom culture is the teacher's responsibility. If a student is being harassed and has a hostile environment in this classroom, the teacher has failed in a serious way. Doubly-so when the harassment is driven by…

Then she should have kept the criticism relevant to that and not attacking the teacher's technical judgement:

"Visual Basic? Seriously?? Yes, I know I said I'm not writing to complain about your choice of programming languages, even though I'm still scratching my head on this one"

That only moves the focus from the real problem and creates a dispute that is not even relevant and necessary.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#68

Post by eru »

GhotiFish wrote: post #51

I would of posted this in her comment section, but the requirements for signing up are beyond the pale of acceptable. "Thanks to my career, my daughter's Facebook friends list includes Linux conference organizers, an ARM developer and Linux kernel contributor, open source advocates, and other tech journalists." I, am so jealous right now. "but I was unprepared for the harassment to start in high school, in her progra…

So, high school sucks in general. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't care.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#69

Post by waveman2 »

According to the author she did nothing about the problem at the time ie did not talk to the teacher, but is now more than happy to create drama by the track.

The author's qualifications in teaching appears to be zero, and her qualifications in programming seem to be that she is a tech journalist and author of a work of fiction. Why should the teacher have any notice of her?

The extent of the problem is that some people said things like "go make me a sammich" etc to her daughter. I would suggest that this is actually not a huge problem. I recall my days in high school, when I was beaten up on a regular basis for the sin of being good at Math and Science. I mean hard punches to the head and body, possessions destroyed, etc. I spite of my complaints to parents and teachers alike, nothing was done until I managed to create some bad publicity for the school. But it seems it only hatters if it happens to a girl (TM).

Bear in mind also that the salary of the teacher is probably around 60% of the salary that a production programmer can earn. So unless the teacher is a very idealistic soul, it is likely the teacher is struggling and knows little about programming. Which makes the teacher's job all the more difficult.

Finally, there is no proof any of this actually happened. Given past feminist false claims, it is quite on the cards that it didn't happen or is exaggerated... particularly given the acknowledgement that she did nothing about the problem when it counted.

Re: To my daughter's high school programming teacher

#70

Post by yeukhon »

eru wrote: post #59
yeukhon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does he get through the course certification? Shouldn't he has to demonstrate he has the qualification to teach CS class? Is this a high school from a small town? I'd imagine in NYC this could mean firing the school's principal if New York Daily finds out.

Why? On paper I can describe those lecture in glowing terms, if necessary. Just rewriting spamizbad's comment with the right buzzwords, and leaving out the student dissatisfaction.

Well same is true for any class right? haha. the question is, why would we want someone no experience with programming to teach programming class to our kids?
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