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Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

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Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#21

Post by res0nat0r »

_delirium wrote: post #15
TallGuyShort wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I'd argue that you're more obligated to abide by something you explicitly checked "I have read and accepted..." than something that was listed somewhere in a file you downloaded with some other stuff. You probably just happen to like the terms of the GPL or ASL more than you like the terms of Google's API. I do too - but at what point are we just losing all integrity because we're too lazy to read a long doc…

If there is an actual click-through and the license is understandable by a human , perhaps. Usually there is neither, though. I rarely even know how to look up terms of an API, or that there is an API. If I know the name of the API, I can look for "Google Foo API", but that name isn't always obvious. If I just see a URL with an obvious schema, and I change the HTTP GET parameters to retrieve different stuff, am I all…

Ridiculous.

Playing dumb isn't an excuse. Can I stop paying my morgtage on my house because the 40 pages of documents I signed I don't 100% understand? No.

If you want to enter a legally binding contract that you don't understand you hire someone to help you do so, or face the consequences if you signed something you were not smart enough to be signing.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#22

Post by graue »

potatolicious wrote: post #10
chatman wrote: post #4

Everyone should try OpenStreetMap based APIs, e.g. MapQuest Open.

I tried one part of the API recently - I'm building an app that's partially intended to give local cycling directions. Now I'm between a rock and a hard place. One the one hand some parts of the MapQuest Open API are extremely bad, on the other hand Google has an all-or-nothing license for their geo data, and their native iOS maps component sucks. MapQuest's cycling directions in Manhattan is worse than having no dir…

How do the directions compare to YourNavigation?

http://www.yournavigation.org/

Despite the clunky interface, I was pleasantly surprised by its biking directions: not as good as Google, but not terrible either. (I was in NYC when I tried using it for awhile.) It's fully open-source.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#23

Post by ajtaylor »

revelation wrote: post #6
TallGuyShort wrote: post #2

Here's another reason that I wish was more prevalently discussed: it's not okay to violate Terms of Service anyway. Don't accept the terms? Don't use the service. We'd all have a field day if "big brother" violated the terms of an open-source license, but the freedom we enjoy in the community comes with a responsibility to honor our agreements.

Violating the terms of a license is very different to violating the Terms of service you "sign" with a button click.

I really don't see the difference. Either way you're agreeing to abide by a set of rules by the owner of the service. If you don't like their rules, use one of the alternatives.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#24

Post by sillysaurus2 »

lmgftp wrote: post #8
TallGuyShort wrote: post #2

Here's another reason that I wish was more prevalently discussed: it's not okay to violate Terms of Service anyway. Don't accept the terms? Don't use the service. We'd all have a field day if "big brother" violated the terms of an open-source license, but the freedom we enjoy in the community comes with a responsibility to honor our agreements.

This really could use more exposure. People who believe that because they only had to click "Accept" they may claim ignorance or stupidity/absurdity of the terms the accepted ought to be corrected. It's simply silly to think you may violate the terms of any agreement made, especially when that agreement is necessary to your use of the service (hence "terms" of service). While it is clear that hacker culture embraces…

If they wish people not use it in that way, then they should make it impossible to use in that way, or ban those people from using it.

Those are really the only two options, no matter how much we wish people would be honorable.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#26

Post by tegansnyder »

If you are looking for a good mapping alternate checkout Leaflet.js. You can load from a variety of tile servers. I think a while back someone had a tutorial an setting up your own tile server on AWS. Actually http://tiledrawer.com/ provides a base AMI. Another good commercial solution for geocoding is http://smartystreets.com/ if you need to do batch processing.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#27

Post by teraflop »

_delirium wrote: post #15
TallGuyShort wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I'd argue that you're more obligated to abide by something you explicitly checked "I have read and accepted..." than something that was listed somewhere in a file you downloaded with some other stuff. You probably just happen to like the terms of the GPL or ASL more than you like the terms of Google's API. I do too - but at what point are we just losing all integrity because we're too lazy to read a long doc…

If there is an actual click-through and the license is understandable by a human , perhaps. Usually there is neither, though. I rarely even know how to look up terms of an API, or that there is an API. If I know the name of the API, I can look for "Google Foo API", but that name isn't always obvious. If I just see a URL with an obvious schema, and I change the HTTP GET parameters to retrieve different stuff, am I all…

> my first read of it makes it sound like grabbing Maps content in my art project is okay.

You only have to read as far as the beginning of the fourth paragraph to find: "Unless you have received prior written authorization [...] you must not: (a) copy, translate, modify, or make derivative works of the Content or any part thereof..." etc.

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#29

Post by _delirium »

res0nat0r wrote: post #21
_delirium wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is an actual click-through and the license is understandable by a human , perhaps. Usually there is neither, though. I rarely even know how to look up terms of an API, or that there is an API. If I know the name of the API, I can look for "Google Foo API", but that name isn't always obvious. If I just see a URL with an obvious schema, and I change the HTTP GET parameters to retrieve different stuff, am I all…

Ridiculous. Playing dumb isn't an excuse. Can I stop paying my morgtage on my house because the 40 pages of documents I signed I don't 100% understand? No. If you want to enter a legally binding contract that you don't understand you hire someone to help you do so, or face the consequences if you signed something you were not smart enough to be signing.

> if you signed something you were not smart enough to be signing

That's good advice, but I didn't sign anything here.

I have in the past signed contracts with companies agreeing to use services or software in certain ways (generally pre-release stuff under NDA), and in those cases I do indeed read the contract carefully before signing it, sometimes redlining parts of it before they countersign, and I abide by our mutually agreed result. If I don't feel I understand it, I refuse to sign, or ask for clarification.

However, to my knowledge, I have never signed a contract with Google. If they had asked me to do so, I would certainly have refused if I didn't understand the terms. But I do not believe they have even asked me to. All I have done is visit their website, just like they have visited my website.

I have a ToS on my own site, but as far as I can tell, Google just accesses my site however it wants and does not read it (they definitely don't pay me for the premium tier, despite exceeding the stated free access limits).

Re: Why you should not pirate Google’s geo APIs

#30

Post by cinquemb »

res0nat0r wrote: post #21
_delirium wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is an actual click-through and the license is understandable by a human , perhaps. Usually there is neither, though. I rarely even know how to look up terms of an API, or that there is an API. If I know the name of the API, I can look for "Google Foo API", but that name isn't always obvious. If I just see a URL with an obvious schema, and I change the HTTP GET parameters to retrieve different stuff, am I all…

Ridiculous. Playing dumb isn't an excuse. Can I stop paying my morgtage on my house because the 40 pages of documents I signed I don't 100% understand? No. If you want to enter a legally binding contract that you don't understand you hire someone to help you do so, or face the consequences if you signed something you were not smart enough to be signing.

Maybe if google (and all other companies with similar "walled" gardens) had a leg to stand on when it comes to data, one might be more inclined to care more to abide by their wishes…

Playing dumb isn't an excuse; But if one were to juxtapose the consequences of ignoring google's wishes and not paying ones mortgage, that would seem ridiculous.

And is accessing a url is a legally binding contract now, especially when nothing is signed or acknowledged by one or both parties when the url is accessed?

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