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The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

simpleprogrammer.com

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101–110 of 124 posts

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#101

Post by michaelwww »

What's this guy selling?

> I’m actually working on a much bigger project to distill some of these specific software developer career tips into a bigger package.

Anyway, he's making general and simplistic arguments for whatever reason. Programmers have strong opinions and will argue them vigorously. I agree with Socrates “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser” and we should all not tolerate that, but while the argument is going on, if you can't join in and make yours don't blame the community for being intolerant.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#102

Post by lordofbackland »

>>We work in a sort of strange field where intelligence and ability are highly prized, but some of these same qualities made some of us victims of aggression and abuse earlier in life.

Is this being "victims of aggression and abuse" due to high intelligence and ability is normal phenomena in US or just taking a potshot?

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#103

Post by Paul_S »

commanda wrote: post #88

The underlying theme in this post, from what I gather, is "Male programmers are often treated poorly by their peers, so female programmers should have nothing to complain about when they are treated poorly." This is denial of the very real sexism in our industry.

That is nowhere in the article, not even between the lines, outside the lines, generally implied by the curvature of the lines or audible if played backwards and slowed down by a factor of 10.

Don't agree with the blog's author though, arseholes being arseholes is a general fact of life and there's no special link between them and programming.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#105

Post by Vargas »

"We work in a sort of strange field where intelligence and ability are highly prized, but some of these same qualities made some of us victims of aggression and abuse earlier in life."

You USA-nians really have to work on changing your high school culture. Statements like this are so frequent yet so foreign to me... why is aggression and abuse frequent? Why is it tolerated? Why is it aimed towards those with "intelligence and ability"? Why don't you work on changing your society once you grow up? women rights, end of racial segregation, etc. prove that you can change the society you live in in a relatively short period of time. Why you all complain but don't try to change it?

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#106

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

enraged_camel wrote: post #94
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the post over states it but I don't think it's entirely wrong that software developers are atypical in their behaviour, even if it's not exclusive to them. There is something specific about the way that people in software development can be jerks - passive aggressive behaviour, sometimes a lack of self awareness, a certain type of arrogance or at the very least a lack of empathy. And this in an area wher…

>>There is something specific about the way that people in software development can be jerks - passive aggressive behaviour, sometimes a lack of self awareness, a certain type of arrogance or at the very least a lack of empathy. Yes. Generally speaking, I refer to this as "lack of social skills." I don't mean that as derogatory, although I know it will come across that way. Most developers have grown up around comput…

I suspect that in part it's more common because demand for skills massively outstripping supply means that organisations have to put up with ahem personality quirks they wouldn't otherwise tolerate (or would at least avoid).

That said when I first started in IT I was surprised by how few people conformed to the cliched socially awkward stereotype. Yes it was more noticeable than in a typical a cross section of the general public, but I think that the damage someone being a complete jerk can have in a team context means that even given the difficulty in hiring it's selected out to some degree - you've either got to be really good, or at least be able to hide your true nature at interview.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#107

Post by kaybe »

dnautics wrote: post #95
kaybe wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also, I have encountered several people who considered themselves to be just honest all the while implying that the person they tried to help was stupid and beneath them, lazy and so on. If there is no close relationship between the two it will lead to misunderstandings and a very bad work environment very soon. It's impossible (for most of us) to switch this context-reading off, therefore be very careful to use…

but you don't have the ability to control the other person's perceptions or references, and so you don't have control over subtexts. The BETTER solution is to just be honest, factually and emotionally. If you need to establish that you respect someone anyways (and you should, if they deserve it), you do that contextually outside of the sub-argument where you're 'being brutal', ideally, before, and after, and if there…

> but you don't have the ability to control the other person's perceptions or references, and so you don't have control over subtexts.

Ah, within reason, you do, especially when people are as rational as we all aspire to be. Those people-skills books people recommend around here tell you how.

I agree with the rest of your post though, just, you can only fix so many emotional misunderstandings before the general atmosphere goes south. Sidestepping and ignoring several insults every time you try to discuss a problem becomes very unnerving after a while. Thing is, those people usually don't notice they're doing it. When you treat them the same way you feel they treat you, they feel hurt. Well, bad months, I should stop here.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#108

Post by ritchiea »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #41
programminggeek wrote: post #2

Replace Software Development with any job and you are really on to something. People are mean and jerks are everywhere. Perhaps somehow society has convinced us otherwise, but there are a lot of terrible people out there. A lot of people do evil things, a lot of people hurt other people. This is not new and it's not a secret, people for whatever reason are more oblivious to it than they should be or perhaps people ar…

I think that the post over states it but I don't think it's entirely wrong that software developers are atypical in their behaviour, even if it's not exclusive to them. There is something specific about the way that people in software development can be jerks - passive aggressive behaviour, sometimes a lack of self awareness, a certain type of arrogance or at the very least a lack of empathy. And this in an area wher…

I agree wholeheartedly and I have contemplated writing a blog post similar to the OP. One thing I've noticed a lot of is developers (or managers who are ex-developers) who feel like being very nice 80% of the time makes up for their horrible rudeness and lack of empathy and inability to communicate 20% of the time. I think a good analogy is if you're a violent criminal and a felon you're likely not committing felonies 98% of your waking hours in society, but the other 2% is a big enough problem that it's more important than your acceptable behavior at other times. If you melt down when the work isn't easy, or people have questions or there is the slightest bit of disagreement, it doesn't matter how nice you are when things are going well.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#109

Post by pdevr »

ripter wrote: post #14

Welcome to life. I've been wondering how the "everyone is special" and "everyone wins!" trends that people have been teaching their children would manifest. This looks like a good example. If you do anything that other people will see, some of them will criticize you. That's just life and not necessarily a bad thing. There isn't enough room for everyone to be special and winners. In order for someone to win someone e…

>In order for someone to win someone else has to lose.

I agree with the rest, but winning is not always a zero-sum game.

Re: The Dark Side Of Software Development That No One Talks About

#110

Post by adamconroy »

I agree with this post in general. I am currently working on a project by myself, and have been for the last 4 years. I am getting a bit bored, I don't want to stagnate and I can sort of see the need to get back to working with a team. I have been contemplating this for ~18 months, however I dread the thought of it because I know it is almost certain I will end up working with at least one passive aggressive, insecure, egotistical fuckwit that will drive me to look for another project anyway.

I have worked on 13 project teams in the last 20 years. Every single team that has had more than 3 people has contained at least one whacko that has made life miserable for everyone else.

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