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The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

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Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?

The development of adult life is stunted. It takes longer to afford to rent an apartment on your own, buy a house, buy a car, get married, start a family, start a business, etc. If you're college educated you probably have a broad support network. So instead of being homeless, you move back in with your parents. So instead of losing your home, you may never get it in the first place. The consequences of defaulting on…

And to connect the next couple of dots:

- All these young people who can't afford homes, cars or kids will cause the economy to not grow as fast as it otherwise would.

- And if the economy is slow, fewer jobs will be created, keeping these young people poor even longer.

Of course, not everyone has parents that they can move in with, and those who don't have that safety net will suffer the most.

Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#23

No, it's not. Not even close, and this is really terrible reporting. It's unfortunate that so many young people are carrying large amounts of student loan debt, but there is no sign of a "bubble" bursting any time soon. I don't even understand how the notion of a "student loan bubble" makes sense, since people don't "speculate" on college like they speculate on real estate. There are so many things wrong with the ide…

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Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#24

No, it's not. Not even close, and this is really terrible reporting. It's unfortunate that so many young people are carrying large amounts of student loan debt, but there is no sign of a "bubble" bursting any time soon. I don't even understand how the notion of a "student loan bubble" makes sense, since people don't "speculate" on college like they speculate on real estate. There are so many things wrong with the ide…

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Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#25

No, it's not. Not even close, and this is really terrible reporting. It's unfortunate that so many young people are carrying large amounts of student loan debt, but there is no sign of a "bubble" bursting any time soon. I don't even understand how the notion of a "student loan bubble" makes sense, since people don't "speculate" on college like they speculate on real estate. There are so many things wrong with the ide…

I think calling it a "bubble" is a way to put it into immediately recognizable terms for people. And according to your definition of what a bubble is, it could be an apt description. From wikipedia: "It could also be described as a situation in which asset prices appear to be based on implausible or inconsistent views about the future," which to me sounds a lot like the current student loan situation. The tuition costs covered by these loans do not seem to be based on their future value in any meaningful way.

Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#26
post #5

Misplaced incentives all over the place. This one is going to be messy. But as many people have pointed out, much more slow moving than the previous financial bubble.

This one is going to be messy. As someone who really hasn't thought about it very much, I'd love for someone to expand on this. What's the expected fallout? In the housing bubble, many people lost the places where they lived. But it's not like someone can "take back" your education if you default on the loan, so what happens instead?

The problem is that most money in circulation was manufactured by creating debt. When you destroy that debt through default, you destroy that money.

The fiction of student loans is tricky because under Bush they changed bankruptcy rules to exclude student debt. But fundamentally when banks are forced to write down bad student debt, their rosy asset picture becomes non-rosy. When that happens they are required by regulators to not lend. And this is ugly for the whole economy.

In 2008 we resolved the problem by having the US government find ways to lend tremendous amounts of money on very favorable terms, and then the Fed picked this up with a similar policy that they call quantitative easing. This creates lots of money in financial markets so that things like banks can continue to operate. The bigger long-term problem is how we'll ever exit the policy.

To give an idea how sensitive this situation is, a while ago Bernanke announced that if things continued to improve faster than expected, in a year the Fed would evaluate whether to exit QE 2 faster than originally planned. You can't come up with a milder statement that the policy might end. The markets went crazy. A few days later, Bernanke came out and said we won't be doing that after all, then markets calmed down.

There is no question, a student loan debt crisis will be responded to with more QE. The problem of exiting the mess will become bigger. Historically countries have exited this type of policy only after the crisis of a currency collapse. But so far the market players seem to be betting that they will get out of the USA before the other guy when the crisis hits, and in the meantime the USA looks safer than China and Europe.

However the financial economy is always a mess. And they are always finding another way to kick the can down the road. That will certainly happen again. And again. And again. Until it doesn't. Every time the doomsayers say, "We don't see how we can kick the can down the road again!" But we do. The dot com bust was resolved with easy interest policies that resulted in a housing boom that resulted in the financial crisis. That was resolved with QE.

Take your best guess as to whether we'll kick this can down the road as well...

Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#27
post #24

No, it's not. Not even close, and this is really terrible reporting. It's unfortunate that so many young people are carrying large amounts of student loan debt, but there is no sign of a "bubble" bursting any time soon. I don't even understand how the notion of a "student loan bubble" makes sense, since people don't "speculate" on college like they speculate on real estate. There are so many things wrong with the ide…

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[deleted]

Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#29

No, it's not. Not even close, and this is really terrible reporting. It's unfortunate that so many young people are carrying large amounts of student loan debt, but there is no sign of a "bubble" bursting any time soon. I don't even understand how the notion of a "student loan bubble" makes sense, since people don't "speculate" on college like they speculate on real estate. There are so many things wrong with the ide…

> People can't walk away from student loan debt, like they can walk away from real estate debt.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, everettForth, but this isn't going to be true much longer. (Something has to give, and this is what's going to give, I predict.)

Re: The Student Loan Bubble is Starting To Burst

#30

Every kid I come across that plans to go to college I tell them to find the cheapest route possible. Start at either a good community college or go to a public in-state school. You can still go to a good college for a reasonable price, but it seems more and more that kids are taking the more expensive route (dorms, out-of-state, etc).

For kids from poor or middle class families, Princeton, Harvard, Yale and Caltech will usually cost less than an in-state public school when it comes to what the student and his family actually have to pay.

In-state public school has a lower sticker price, but have less non-loan need-based aid so students have to come up with a high percentage of the sticker price. The top private non-profit schools have higher sticker price, but provide a lot more non-loan need-based aid, so students have to pay a much lower percentage of the cost. At Princeton, for example, the average debt at graduation is only $5k.

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